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Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

ns.nl

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Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#101

Post by samstave »

xyst wrote: post #83
quartz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the notice: > It affected the system that generates up-to-date schedules for trains and staff. ...boy oh boy did trying to look into what NS uses for crew scheduling ever send me down a rabbit hole. I don't know if the systems have changed but while poking around online I found this[1] doc about the Netherlands' timetable revamp around 2006 and it talks about the complexity of TURNI-- their on-the-fly crew sched…

I have seen “SAP” tossed around in this industry and still have no clue what they do to earn money. Are they the equivalence of “salesforce”?

Think Oracle, with business logic on top. (JDEdwards, Oracle, SAP) were the OGs of BI.

(and bloat, and McKinsey infiltration into many a large F100+)

--

They are old school, entrenched, but yu would jump off a cliff supporting any of this legacy stuff. It will persist as the inertia on huge systems is heavy.

But yeah - I wonder if they are signing any NEW business... aside from military bunker grade stuff (which will cost as much as the bunker to implement) I dont see a reason to implement (not because I am bashing, but because I dont know the modern business case reqs that would call for SAP)

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#102

Post by Aeolun »

Tepix wrote: post #69
ncmncm wrote: post #61

It wasn't the IT failure that kept the trains from running. It was management failure, not ensuring they could run without the IT system.

That sounds unrealistic given the size of the problem.

They did it before the whole thing was automated. Surely they can do it again.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#103

Post by bigDinosaur »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #75
xiphias2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not simply voting by mail, it's voting by mail by not even using official the post office in Romania. I know that you're probably refering to US, but I don't make any comment about it, because I don't live there, so I don't know what really happened in US. In Romania some people found partially burned ballots with only opposition votes next to a garbage bin before the elections ended. The proofs of voter fraud c…

Well that is just an isolated case. There is simply no evidence to support the baseless conspiracy theory that postal voting results in widespread fraud. This has been well established by the experts and journalists.

Clearly the quality of the audit matters and that differs massively between countries. Nobody disputes the validity and integrity of postal voting in Australia for example.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#104

Post by bigDinosaur »

jrockway wrote: post #56
blibble wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

scheduling hasn't been used for preventing conflicting movements since the 1830s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_signalling#History_of_...

That is not strictly true. The LIRR Main Line east of Ronkonkoma uses timetable/train order scheduling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_order_operation What is more interesting is how they get away with this when PTC is now mandatory (a lot of special operating rules/restrictions).

It'd make sense that a line famous for being terrible around the world (in transit circles) would still use such a system.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#105

Post by CyanBird »

Aeolun wrote: post #102
Tepix wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds unrealistic given the size of the problem.

They did it before the whole thing was automated. Surely they can do it again.

Sure, *but not on a single day without any warning what's ever*

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#106

Post by nicolas_t »

samstave wrote: post #99
quartz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the notice: > It affected the system that generates up-to-date schedules for trains and staff. ...boy oh boy did trying to look into what NS uses for crew scheduling ever send me down a rabbit hole. I don't know if the systems have changed but while poking around online I found this[1] doc about the Netherlands' timetable revamp around 2006 and it talks about the complexity of TURNI-- their on-the-fly crew sched…

I love deep diving on public info to determine the internals (even, not only SOPs, policies, but also *governing culture* can be easily gleaned from reading what is placed in public view. For example, The Salvation Army is one of the biggest jokes in all of charitable history. I wont go into details here, but I would NEVER give a dime to the Salvation "army" (of free slave labor under the guise of "salvation" (its a…

Please go into details, I always think it's important to call out charities that are fraudulent and going into details helps with detecting if other charities are fraudulent or not.

What lead you to look into this? How did you originally suspect them of being fraudulent? What clues did you see in their financial documents?

For example, I tend to look at Charity Navigator and for Salvation Army, they mostly get dinged by not having an independent board (which to be fair is a clear red flag) but not much more, so as someone who does want any contribution I make to charities to go toward their cause, I'm very interested in any methodology around researching a charity.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#107

Post by kovacs_ »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #97
nine_k wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are so colossal that switching to SAP usually means reworking company's processes to match SAP's, not the other way around.

To be fair, that is the case for most ERPs. It's not really about the size of the product but rather the important role it plays in a company. Most ERPs can be quite flexible too, there's a ton of customisation possible. And a whole cottage industry of addons and integrations for every imaginable integration or business model. But the problem is you really screw yourself with added complexity when it's time to update…

Heh, you described my work situation to a T.

They decided to modify a number of core functions to work the same way as their old terminal system instead of the default ERP process. Now our job for the next couple years is decoupling the custom add-ons so we can safely update to a modern ERP system.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#108

Post by supernova87a »

While having algorithms and computers dictating every aspect of train movements, crew scheduling, resource allocation is efficient and in a sense optimal, I think there's something compelling to be said about having a system that can survive with human-rememberable patterns when such an optimizer fails. That it can fall back on (or have at the core) simple patterns that people can still operate without algorithmic intervention. I.e. the algorithmic tuning enhances at the edges, and isn't at its core some tangled non-interpretable system that someone can't operate without computer assistance. The idea of a protected set of core routes and staffing patterns that operates without having to be computer-determined?

I used to be so impressed at European train stations that they had a single sheet that would give the entire day's arrivals and departures, down to which track. I assume that behind that were schedules that weren't so far from being hand-calculated with equivalent sheets that told people and equipment where to be at what times.

I think we lose something when we jump so far forward that you cannot fall back gracefully without a system completely breaking down.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#109

Post by rendall »

samstave wrote: post #101
xyst wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen “SAP” tossed around in this industry and still have no clue what they do to earn money. Are they the equivalence of “salesforce”?

Think Oracle, with business logic on top. (JDEdwards, Oracle, SAP) were the OGs of BI. (and bloat, and McKinsey infiltration into many a large F100+) -- They are old school, entrenched, but yu would jump off a cliff supporting any of this legacy stuff. It will persist as the inertia on huge systems is heavy. But yeah - I wonder if they are signing any NEW business... aside from military bunker grade stuff (which will…

> McKinsey infiltration into...

What is McKinsey infiltration?

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#110

Post by Agentlien »

This reminds me of the story one of my university teachers used to introduce himself. He was the most brilliant educator I've had, really passionate about making sure people could actually follow and so humble. The course was called "Digital and Computer Technology" and it was a first year course teaching you to build a CPU starting from logic gates and then program it with assembly.

He said that when he had recently graduated and just moved from Norway to Sweden his first job here was as a technician for the local railway. One of his first assignments was a call where the computer controlling all the track switches had stopped working. Luckily there was a backup, but they needed him to fix it immediately.

He arrived, took a look at the computer and its backup running next to it. He started out by measuring voltages on both, comparing to see what the difference was. After a while some men in suits came in and asked how things were going. He said it was all good, they said it wasn't because now all trains had stopped. Apparently, he had short circuited the backup.

"And that's when I decided to go for a theoretical career!" My teacher happily concluded. The classroom was left in a stunned silence.

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