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Windows 11 may not be as popular as Microsoft had hoped

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Re: Windows 11 may not be as popular as Microsoft had hoped

#101

Post by LinAGKar »

samtheDamned wrote: post #31
0des wrote: post #2

> yet another start menu > yet more ads > requires modern hardware > more surprise updates breaking things Win11 not as popular? Imagine my shock and dismay. A sizable portion of my non-tech peers had bad experiences and one by one switched to Linux and the elder two switched to MacOS. Frankly I am baffled.

> requires modern hardware *in a time when new hardware was so freakishly expensive that 4-5 year old hardware was being sold for more than it's original MSRP

And even hardware capable of it often has TPM disabled in BIOS by default

Re: Windows 11 may not be as popular as Microsoft had hoped

#102

Post by Shadonototra »

i'm surprised that they are surprised

they still haven't learn from their past mistakes

- hiring problem

- culture problem

- lack of testing

- bloat driven development

- tasteless when it comes to UX

- they follow gnome, mobile-first UI/UX for a desktop OS that nobody use on mobile, the irony

management will still get their fat bonuses, so nothing will change, they missed 2 opportunities to reboot windows

their lack of vision and courage prevents them from unbloating their OS

"legacy bits" that holds back windows, things that nobody use anymore, and even if they get rid of them, the harm is done, and they lack taste and vision to make something proper anyways

EDIT:

I almost forgot the poor state of native windows development.. no proper modern GUI frameworks, they are still stuck with XAML, a joke compared to Swift/SwiftUI/Universal apps (mobile/ipad/desktop)

Re: Windows 11 may not be as popular as Microsoft had hoped

#103

Post by rsynnott »

kyriakos wrote: post #82
rsynnott wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh? No it didn't. Compatibility list: https://support.apple.com/kb/sp833 It works on anything with a Haswell or later and Intel or AMD graphics, essentially. (Note that the MacBook is 2015 because there was no product called that between about 2009 and 2015; the iMac Pro is 2017 because that's when it was introduced).

Windows 11 works too, the workaround is official and at the same time windows 10 still receives updates so it's not like Microsoft killed older hardware by setting new requirements for Windows 11.

Sure, but the issue is uptake of Windows 11. Virtually no-one is going to use a workaround, official or not, so the low uptake is unsurprising, due to poor hardware support.

Re: Windows 11 may not be as popular as Microsoft had hoped

#104

Post by w4rh4wk5 »

pjmlp wrote: post #94
abdulmuhaimin wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

theres MacOS. Thats the real immediate threat of Windows 11. And honestly with recent development of Apple's hardware, and gaming on Linux, Microsoft should be worried. Windows 11 feels like Microsoft make a step forward and 2 steps backward

In many countries there isn't, at least not at the same 300 euro price range many families manage to get by. Since Windows XP that we are going to have everyone switch in droves to Linux, because Microsoft did X. What gaming, running Windows games on Wine and Proton, because studios can't still be bothered to this day, even when they are already using POSIX like (PS/Switch/iOS) or Linux based OSes (Android/Stadia) ?

Regarding gaming: in fact a lot of the big studios don't really care about PC as a platform in general, not specifically about Windows. See Elden Ring for example, it has a PC 'port' that is about the bare minimum you can get by nowadays (locked at 60, no ultrawide support, performance issues on non-high-end systems etc.). And that for a AAA title.

One would think that a modern game engine takes care of all the issues, allowing a studio to port their game from console to PC with the click of button. But reality has shown that this is not the case.

While modern consoles and cloud service (like Google Stadia) may use POSIX like OSes under the hood, you'd still be using a proprietary API to interface with the platform. Porting a game from PlayStation or Nintendo Switch to Linux is not easier than porting it over from Windows.

I've worked on a Google Stadia port in the past and are currently working a Nintendo Switch port, along with a PC port. If I had to port to native Linux, without Wine/Proton and DXVK, I'd take the PC version as basis.

Re: Windows 11 may not be as popular as Microsoft had hoped

#105

Post by pjmlp »

w4rh4wk5 wrote: post #104
pjmlp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many countries there isn't, at least not at the same 300 euro price range many families manage to get by. Since Windows XP that we are going to have everyone switch in droves to Linux, because Microsoft did X. What gaming, running Windows games on Wine and Proton, because studios can't still be bothered to this day, even when they are already using POSIX like (PS/Switch/iOS) or Linux based OSes (Android/Stadia) ?

Regarding gaming: in fact a lot of the big studios don't really care about PC as a platform in general, not specifically about Windows. See Elden Ring for example, it has a PC 'port' that is about the bare minimum you can get by nowadays (locked at 60, no ultrawide support, performance issues on non-high-end systems etc.). And that for a AAA title. One would think that a modern game engine takes care of all the issue…

Right, because consoles provide a known target, and there is more to do a port than clicking on export button.

Middleware hasn't killed the porting business exactly because of that.

Re: Windows 11 may not be as popular as Microsoft had hoped

#106

Post by w4rh4wk5 »

supernovae wrote: post #36
w4rh4wk5 wrote: post #14

I'd really like to know how much Microsoft's behavior with recent Windows versions pays off. Specifically bundling lots of unwanted apps, forcing Edge and Defender down people's throats, removing basic UI customization features, etc. The fact that they are still doing this today suggests that they get something out of these decisions. Or at least they think so. I can only imagine that the part of customers being alie…

Windows defender is better than almost evrything out there. Edge is as annoying as chrome or safari is on their respective os’s and no basic ui stuff has really been removed that tons of freeware and addons didn’t allow one to customize and they’re releasing a new update to continue to refine the UX/UI

Defender may be better but I still don't like that you can't completely disabled it without breaking other parts of the system, like Windows Store.

Edge itself, as a browser, might only be equally annoying as Chrome, but my point is about Microsoft forcing you to use it.

Using third-party applications to restore functionality is not something we should consider acceptable.

I am using Windows 11 on a Microsoft Surface Go 3 and the UI is big issue at the moment. Some of the issues have been around a while now and are not entirely related to the Surface Go 3:

- Using 125% DPI scaling causes the right-click menu to be incorrectly sized, showing a scrollbar. If you scroll down, explorer crashes. [1]

- Rotating the Surfaces changes screen brightness. Also happens when attaching the type cover. [2]

- If you open too many applications to the point where the taskbar overflows, you cannot access overflowed elements. This easily happens when using the Surface in portrait mode, while having pinned a hand full of applications.

[1]: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/report-an-issue/repro... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=30901634&goto=item%3Fi...

Re: Windows 11 may not be as popular as Microsoft had hoped

#107

Post by w4rh4wk5 »

jareklupinski wrote: post #78
w4rh4wk5 wrote: post #14

I'd really like to know how much Microsoft's behavior with recent Windows versions pays off. Specifically bundling lots of unwanted apps, forcing Edge and Defender down people's throats, removing basic UI customization features, etc. The fact that they are still doing this today suggests that they get something out of these decisions. Or at least they think so. I can only imagine that the part of customers being alie…

the people who voluntarily leave telemetry "on" are probably skewing the results do they use telemetry on who disables telemetry to balance the data :P

There is no practical way of turning of telemetry completely.

Since telemetry is enabled by default, I doubt the portion of users turning it off is significant. I think the bigger problem is that you just can't derive meaningful data from telemetry to make the necessary decisions for improving user experience.

Re: Windows 11 may not be as popular as Microsoft had hoped

#108

Post by 0des »

kyriakos wrote: post #93
0des wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kyriakos Grizzly?

It's a very common Greek name

Ah OK thanks. I'm still going to assume you have an 800lb deadlift though, because surely it is something in the water there haha. If you haven't heard the name before, you should check him out. Nothing short of a specimen.

Re: Windows 11 may not be as popular as Microsoft had hoped

#110

Post by elorant »

Aerroon wrote: post #40
0des wrote: post #2

> yet another start menu > yet more ads > requires modern hardware > more surprise updates breaking things Win11 not as popular? Imagine my shock and dismay. A sizable portion of my non-tech peers had bad experiences and one by one switched to Linux and the elder two switched to MacOS. Frankly I am baffled.

I'm actually glad that they had the modern hardware requirement. It means that Microsoft can't suddenly surprise update me into Windows 11.

I have modern hardware but I chose to disable certain bios features for exactly this reason. Now Win10 informs me that my PC is not Win11 capable, and that's a thing less to worry.
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