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The big automotive semiconductor problem

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Re: The big automotive semiconductor problem

#101

Post by bayindirh »

hulitu wrote: post #62
Isinlor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX works around that by using consumer grade stuff and just replicating it 3 times. Tesla also managed to handle issues with supply shortages very well. The old practices are just not good enough.

Tesla is not a car. It looks like one, it might behave a bit like one but i would not touch such a thing even with a 9 m pole. I heard too many horror stories about Tesla requirements.

If it looks like a duck (car), and moves like a duck (car), and quacks like a duck (car), then it's a duck (car) in my book.

What other thing should it have? An ICE? Then Nissan Leaf, Ford F150 electric, and BMW i series are not cars either.

Re: The big automotive semiconductor problem

#102

Post by calvinmorrison »

pas wrote: post #99
calvinmorrison wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's really fantastic though, for parts availability and reliability. People don't remember how absolute shit any pre-80's vehicle is. Like, shit tier reliability from carbs, tune ups, constant work. 100k? that car is dead and done! Now the average vehicle age has been climbing and climbing. The best part is that 2005 brake caliper is probably just a slightly more refined version from the 90's

Yes, exactly, no questions there :) I remember here in the 90s (barely post-USSR Hungary) going anywhere with a typical car was almost like a choose your own adventure, where adventure meant something will randomly go wrong, and if you are lucky you have spare parts with you, or maybe you can simply find a workaround (for example when the cooling system loses all the water because the radiator suddenly bursts means y…

Cars tend to fail more disastrously now, but less often. If my coil back goes I am SOL. There's a reason they tell you to keep one in the trunk. The difference to that and a cap+rotor is, a cap and rotor is about 12 bucks and can be done on the side of the road without tools, and that cap and rotor fits about 50 million 4 cylinders manufactured in the last 50 years, and tends to degrade more gracefully.

On the flip side, cars now tend to run more efficiently till they break fully and go into limp mode or won't run - a lot less tuneups and tweaking, no adjusting the valves and carb as the car ages

Re: The big automotive semiconductor problem

#103

Post by bayindirh »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #102
pas wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly, no questions there :) I remember here in the 90s (barely post-USSR Hungary) going anywhere with a typical car was almost like a choose your own adventure, where adventure meant something will randomly go wrong, and if you are lucky you have spare parts with you, or maybe you can simply find a workaround (for example when the cooling system loses all the water because the radiator suddenly bursts means y…

Cars tend to fail more disastrously now, but less often. If my coil back goes I am SOL. There's a reason they tell you to keep one in the trunk. The difference to that and a cap+rotor is, a cap and rotor is about 12 bucks and can be done on the side of the road without tools, and that cap and rotor fits about 50 million 4 cylinders manufactured in the last 50 years, and tends to degrade more gracefully. On the flip s…

I've lost coil twice. Once was during driving. I lost a single cylinder, check engine light turned on. I was able to drive up to 70Km/h without my check engine light start blinking (means "you can melt your catalytic convertor, exhaust is too fuel rich, reduce throttle!").

Went to my service guy, he put down his tea on my engine, replaced it and his tea was half (~10 minutes). Also put in a new set of plug wires since my set was ~18 years old and gone hard at that point.

I went to office, lost 30-40 minutes at most.

The second one happened when the car was at park, at night. Started it in the morning, it was running off, so went to service. Same story. 70Km/h speed, 10 minute change, sans the cables this time.

Newer cars tend to use one per plug. It's just a disconnect, pop-off, push in, plug, go. 2-3 minutes at most.

Re: The big automotive semiconductor problem

#104

Post by calvinmorrison »

bayindirh wrote: post #103
calvinmorrison wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars tend to fail more disastrously now, but less often. If my coil back goes I am SOL. There's a reason they tell you to keep one in the trunk. The difference to that and a cap+rotor is, a cap and rotor is about 12 bucks and can be done on the side of the road without tools, and that cap and rotor fits about 50 million 4 cylinders manufactured in the last 50 years, and tends to degrade more gracefully. On the flip s…

I've lost coil twice. Once was during driving. I lost a single cylinder, check engine light turned on. I was able to drive up to 70Km/h without my check engine light start blinking (means "you can melt your catalytic convertor, exhaust is too fuel rich, reduce throttle!"). Went to my service guy, he put down his tea on my engine, replaced it and his tea was half (~10 minutes). Also put in a new set of plug wires sinc…

yeah, this is actually something we are looking at for the Saab T5 engine series. It uses an integrated coil pack for all the cylinders, which in turn means, a failure of one is a failure of all. I know some of the tuners have switched to using more normal coil pack setups, but unfortunately the T5 system is pretty unique so its not a thing that can be easily hot swapped.

One interesting tidbit is the coil packs run a bit of current over the plug when it's not sparking to measure ionization to determine engine conditions (i think mostly knock)

Re: The big automotive semiconductor problem

#105

Post by bayindirh »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #104
bayindirh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lost coil twice. Once was during driving. I lost a single cylinder, check engine light turned on. I was able to drive up to 70Km/h without my check engine light start blinking (means "you can melt your catalytic convertor, exhaust is too fuel rich, reduce throttle!"). Went to my service guy, he put down his tea on my engine, replaced it and his tea was half (~10 minutes). Also put in a new set of plug wires sinc…

yeah, this is actually something we are looking at for the Saab T5 engine series. It uses an integrated coil pack for all the cylinders, which in turn means, a failure of one is a failure of all. I know some of the tuners have switched to using more normal coil pack setups, but unfortunately the T5 system is pretty unique so its not a thing that can be easily hot swapped. One interesting tidbit is the coil packs run…

> It uses an integrated coil pack for all the cylinders, which in turn means, a failure of one is a failure of all.

That’s interesting. My coil pack is also integrated, but it’s designed to fail independently. Maybe it’s the design of the coil, but not an inherent shortcoming of the system itself.

> One interesting tidbit is the coil packs run a bit of current over the plug when it's not sparking to measure ionization to determine engine conditions (i think mostly knock)

Didn’t know that. I knew that engine knock was measured with vibration sensors, crank position relative to other things and engine output measurements via load sensors (irregularity), but ionization measurement is new to me. Have any sources, so I can read more?

Re: The big automotive semiconductor problem

#106

Post by calvinmorrison »

bayindirh wrote: post #105
calvinmorrison wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, this is actually something we are looking at for the Saab T5 engine series. It uses an integrated coil pack for all the cylinders, which in turn means, a failure of one is a failure of all. I know some of the tuners have switched to using more normal coil pack setups, but unfortunately the T5 system is pretty unique so its not a thing that can be easily hot swapped. One interesting tidbit is the coil packs run…

> It uses an integrated coil pack for all the cylinders, which in turn means, a failure of one is a failure of all. That’s interesting. My coil pack is also integrated, but it’s designed to fail independently. Maybe it’s the design of the coil, but not an inherent shortcoming of the system itself. > One interesting tidbit is the coil packs run a bit of current over the plug when it's not sparking to measure ionizatio…

I think it was basically since Saab was fairly early to the coil pack game, these "Direct Ignition Cassettes" was in production in 88...

Yeah... no standard knock sensor, which is the normal way to do things, but it's much improved because a regular knock sensor on a 900 can't really tell, what cylinder is knocking (and no cylinder behaves the same, regardless of what you do), so on a distributed 900 with the Bosch systems, it'll hold boost back or (with ezk) retard knocking for a few full cycles.

With ionization it can determine -which- cylinder is knocking and adjust timing and fuel on that one specifically

Here's a good article

https://eeuroparts.com/blog/tech-corner-saab-trionic-and-ion...

Re: The big automotive semiconductor problem

#107

Post by bayindirh »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #106
bayindirh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It uses an integrated coil pack for all the cylinders, which in turn means, a failure of one is a failure of all. That’s interesting. My coil pack is also integrated, but it’s designed to fail independently. Maybe it’s the design of the coil, but not an inherent shortcoming of the system itself. > One interesting tidbit is the coil packs run a bit of current over the plug when it's not sparking to measure ionizatio…

I think it was basically since Saab was fairly early to the coil pack game, these "Direct Ignition Cassettes" was in production in 88... Yeah... no standard knock sensor, which is the normal way to do things, but it's much improved because a regular knock sensor on a 900 can't really tell, what cylinder is knocking (and no cylinder behaves the same, regardless of what you do), so on a distributed 900 with the Bosch s…

That was an awesome read, thank you!
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