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France ends gas heaters subsidies

reuters.com

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Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#101
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You (and many others) forget a thing: gas is not only used to heat... It's used in various industrial sectors. Did you know why there is a fertilizer crisis in agriculture? Because modern fertilizers are made from gas, via ammonia. Oh, of course we have classic manure, but unfortunately if not enough because the Green New Deal want to push a meat-less diet not because of pollution but because doing so means that food…

> of course we have classic manure, but unfortunately if not enough The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop. It's been exporting it for years, to whoever will take it. > the Green New Deal want to push a meat-less diet not because of pollution but because doing so means that food production is a big industrial business, not something little player can run and compete I'm afraid you entirely lost me here. T…

> The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop

I'm talking about animal manure, not human's one... That last can't be used in agriculture because too many meds and diseases can pass along... The NL btw have a population density that can't really nourish it's resident without importing significant amount of foods. That's a classic problem, but in an age of scarcity it count much more than in an age of abundance...

> meat can be done profitably at a smaller scale than plant production) is quite simply a fabrication

Meat can be done at small scale, no matter the profit. You can easy raise chickens in your own backyard, nourishing them with some insects and various food waste if you can't have a bit of grains. They reproduce autonomously for almost the entire year and in 4-5-6 month you can slaughter them at home. That means you can at a hyper-small scale source proteins to keep yourself alive if needed. At a slightly bigger scale a S.E. can easily live selling eggs and meat. At a slightly bigger scale you can have goats and sheep, from a region of the earth to another it's just change the size of land needed to nourish a flock, goats and sheep live normally in rural central Asia, in place almost desertic for a hyper-large part of the year, they also live in Scandinavia and similarly in various part of Africa. At a slightly bigger scale came pigs and cows.

On contrary to nourish people with crackers made from grains and dried insects as the Green New Deal want you need factories. You need automated systems to dry insects (alive, of course) grind them into flour, cut this flour with the corn flour, add flavor enhancers and various other synthetic chemical compounds, package everything etc. That can't be done at a small scale. That's why Green New Deal want them: living on such "food" demand living on industry, without you perish, while living on classic fosterage can be done as we have done in the early age of humanity, surely it's not much living then surviving doing as such BUT it's still possible, so anyone can potentially do just owning land in almost any part of the world, it's just a matter of how much land is needed per human being. That's is...

To preserve meat you just need salt (yes saltpetre help, but it's not mandatory) and salt can be easily sourced from the see and in some lands without any specific tech. Making salami, hams etc demand nothing more (the casings are obtained from the animal).

I hope I have clarified now :-)

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#102
post #89
post #7

I'm working on a project for France to rollout virtual power plant flexibility with domestic electric heating. We get pressure to rapidly increase the rollout now. Let me know if you want to join us!

Short summary here so people can understand why this is massive in France: * (super summarized), France developped nuclear electricity back in the 70s. As a counterpart, Electric heaters were massively deployed * Electric heaters were deployed with a technology named "fil pilote": when you change the phase, you can drive the target temperature https://www.vitahabitat.fr/blog/qu-est-ce-que-le-fil-pilote-... * Unfortun…

I don't understand why you can't just have some wiki/bluetooth/RF/powerline module that turns your electric heater on and off depending on a signal from some random home automation controller?

"fil pilote" was probably useful in the 90s but it sounds outdated to me.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#103
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> of course we have classic manure, but unfortunately if not enough The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop. It's been exporting it for years, to whoever will take it. > the Green New Deal want to push a meat-less diet not because of pollution but because doing so means that food production is a big industrial business, not something little player can run and compete I'm afraid you entirely lost me here. T…

> The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop I'm talking about animal manure, not human's one... That last can't be used in agriculture because too many meds and diseases can pass along... The NL btw have a population density that can't really nourish it's resident without importing significant amount of foods. That's a classic problem, but in an age of scarcity it count much more than in an age of abundance.…

> That's why Green New Deal want them: living on such "food" demand living on industry, without you perish, while living on classic fosterage can be done

This is a hilarious conspiracy theory. (((They))) want to stop people from being able to live without industry because … there is such a huge population willing to do that? Right.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#104
post #88
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's what Russian propaganda keeps saying. Not really. Russian propaganda talk about liberating Ukraine because it is ruled by Nazi's. They talk about themselves as the heroes rather than wanting to destroy Ukraine "just" to create a neural zone. The gas might be a motivator too but as you said yourself Ukraine was moving closer to EU and NATO before Russia started any hostilities. Summarizing will always leave s…

There are few issues there: Russians of course do not act for humanitarian reasons but for interests however they are right saying the NATO create a nazi gov in Ukraine and they are right saying they are not starting a war because the civil war between those nazi militias (like Pravy Sektor, C14, Azov etc) and Russian-speaking Ukrainian (30+% of the total population) was started in 2014 with the infamous Euromaidan m…

Russia started two wars (three with Ukraine, or 4 if you count 2014) since 1991, USA started two.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#105
post #103
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop I'm talking about animal manure, not human's one... That last can't be used in agriculture because too many meds and diseases can pass along... The NL btw have a population density that can't really nourish it's resident without importing significant amount of foods. That's a classic problem, but in an age of scarcity it count much more than in an age of abundance.…

> That's why Green New Deal want them: living on such "food" demand living on industry, without you perish, while living on classic fosterage can be done This is a hilarious conspiracy theory. (((They))) want to stop people from being able to live without industry because … there is such a huge population willing to do that? Right.

I honestly see no "conspiracy theory": "they", intended as the neoliberals, have declared their intentions even in books like Value(s): Building a Better World for All by Mark Carney (ex UK national bank head) or Covid-19: The Great Reset, by Klaus Schwab and Thierry Malleret. The WEF publish a big load of resources as well, starting from the famous 2015-16 video about 2030's agenda.

Essentially all such publishing depict a society when individuals own nothing and depend of very few hyper-giant conglomerate/zaibatsu/chaebol -alike private companies.

A conspiracy is something done in the dark, definitively not publishing plan for anyone who want to read...

Oh, BTW you can see trends everywhere to confirm those publications: start from the IT, how many do use someone else computers instead of their own iron? How many do have their emails locally, using them locally and relay on third parties just for IMAP and SMTP? How many leave their files on cloud "drives"? Keep going with cars: how many connected cars are on the market where the formal owner can't even repair hes/shes own vehicle? How many choose leasing instead of buying? How many rent a house and how are the trends of real estate market?

In the past was normal in most countries owning a house, was normal owning a car that can be repaired by anyone, was normal have personal archives on personal archival systems first on paper and than with desktop computers and so on.

Now take a look at your own life: how much you depend on third parties services and how few such parties are respect of your own great-grandparents?

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#106
post #105
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why Green New Deal want them: living on such "food" demand living on industry, without you perish, while living on classic fosterage can be done This is a hilarious conspiracy theory. (((They))) want to stop people from being able to live without industry because … there is such a huge population willing to do that? Right.

I honestly see no "conspiracy theory": "they", intended as the neoliberals, have declared their intentions even in books like Value(s): Building a Better World for All by Mark Carney (ex UK national bank head) or Covid-19: The Great Reset, by Klaus Schwab and Thierry Malleret. The WEF publish a big load of resources as well, starting from the famous 2015-16 video about 2030's agenda. Essentially all such publishing d…

> Now take a look at your own life: how much you depend on third parties services and how few such parties are respect of your own great-grandparents?

My great-grandparents were very well off for their time, but I’d rather be a poor person (in Europe) today than swap places with them.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#107
post #104
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are few issues there: Russians of course do not act for humanitarian reasons but for interests however they are right saying the NATO create a nazi gov in Ukraine and they are right saying they are not starting a war because the civil war between those nazi militias (like Pravy Sektor, C14, Azov etc) and Russian-speaking Ukrainian (30+% of the total population) was started in 2014 with the infamous Euromaidan m…

Russia started two wars (three with Ukraine, or 4 if you count 2014) since 1991, USA started two.

Are you sure? Is Russian that start Ukrainian war or are nazi's militias formed, armed and trained by the west? I'm asking, really, because the 2014 Euromaidan massacre against Russian-speaking Ukrainian's no one in the west have so far said was started by Russia... While many who know history know very well Yalta agreements post WWII about NATO expansion in the eastern Europe, violated from the start to divide Berlin, so to speak. Few also know historical ops by UK and USA like "Operation Unthinkable" and "Operation Dropshot" (see even Wikipedia) and their scope. Few also remember who want nazi's outside Germany, like a well known source of Russian propaganda named The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/trump-... the same JP Morgan company that in 2013 state south EU countries must withdraw their post WWII constitutions build to avoid a nazi/fascist renaissance... Not counting how nazi management/economic theory is close to modern neoliberal management/economic theory. Not counting land-grabbing also recent in Ukraine [1] or recent projects still active to detach Ukraine from Russian like the Ukrenergo project from 2017 [2] just to cite few pertinent examples, not counting the recent series of Austrian gov. scandals with the last few gov. liaisons with Ukraine nazis, you can start looking for the so called Ibiza Papers.

Also you can notice that Russia have actual reasons to justify their actions, while they are certainly not the moving reasons, USA have LIED about Saddam's mass-destruction weapons, have LIED about Afghanistan protection to osama bin laden etc so far the Russian have not lied publicly, only in Mali they state they were not there just few months ahead of French withdraw and while formally true that was a deliberate lie since they have sent Wagner mercenaries, following the same path of USA usage of Blackwaters and co. But Iraq and Afghanistan was (and still are) the formal war, Syria (started by France, but kept going by NATO like Libya), Somalia, are not formal but still war with big numbers of people suffering and NATO is involved certainly not for peace enforcing or peace keeping ops.

I'm from Italy, nephew of Italians partisans from WWII, I do know the history of WWII and I do know who are "nazi" and who are not enough to understand that putin is a dictator, but on the other side there are other dictators and putin is a dictator outside my country, some others are dictators inside so their are more "primary enemies" than him. Actually as a EU Citizens I feel all the right to accuse my governments of high treason since it act against us citizens, raping the reminiscence of Democracy we still have, raping the Constitution, for foreign interests to speak clear and loud. For me so far remaining in NATO means remaining in a criminal association against the people in general. Also I'm pretty convinced that USA and UK Citizens interests are NOT the interests their government have...

[1] https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/yuri-polakiwsky-a-lend-l... https://archive.is/rXbiM

[2] https://ec.europa.eu/eu-external-investment-plan/projects/uk... https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2021/06/30/u...

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#108

When I lived in France, gas-powered "heating mushrooms" were a common sight in most restaurants and cafés. They basically generate radiation heat so people can comfortably sit outdoors in the early spring / late autumn months. I always thought that this seemed like a capital waste of energy, basically "heating" an unenclosed outdoor space. In the grand scheme of things those heaters probably don't make much of a dent…

> I always thought that this seemed like a capital waste of energy, basically "heating" an unenclosed outdoor space. If we're on the topic of nations wasting energy, let's talk about the US (no hate, just pointing out the facts). I was shocked to see Las Vegas casinos on the strip keeping all the doors open while running the AC at full blast to have 22C in the middle of the desert, basically outdoor. Single pane wind…

And Florida only generates 5% of its energy by renewable means (and much of that is burning biomass).

You're right. It's madness.

It's a strong argument for sustained high fuel prices. The world cannot carry on like this.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#109
My parents living in the outskirts of Paris replaced their 40 year old gas furnace. They considered a higher-efficiency condensation gas furnace, but I convinced them to get a heat pump instead. The former was slightly subsidized (this is what is going away), about €1,000 or so, but more than 50% of the heat pump and installation price was covered by the government. They did have to install refrigerator-sized external elements in the back of the house, an apartment or a house with a smaller yard would have been more challenging.

My parents now have a much quieter heating system that is immune to gas price shocks (they also got rid of their gas range for an induction cooktop and disconnected their gas hookup altogether). And now, of course the satisfaction of not funding Putin's war effort.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#110
post #91

France is only going to continue fund the Russian military for 5 more years. It is nice that they are speeding up the process away from fossil fuels, but 5 more years of funding a military invasion is 5 years too much. How much more do Russia need to do before the cost of buying Russian gas and oil is too much?

  France is only going to continue fund the Russian military for 5 more years. It is nice that they are speeding up the process away from fossil fuels, but 5 more years of funding a military invasion is 5 years too much. 
I didn't realize that Russia invading Ukraine was caused by France. /s

Even if every single country in Europe was willing to kill their own citizens (removing cheap heating during cold seasons) by stopping using Gas today the Russian invasion of Ukraine would not stop.

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