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Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

reuters.com

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Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#101

Post by LgWoodenBadger »

itsoktocry wrote: post #87
parkingrift wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A significant proportion of Americans believe the 2020 election was fraudulently stolen. And that’s with free press in America. Not at all hard to believe that a significant proportion of Russian people believe this lie.

> A significant proportion of Americans believe the 2020 election was fraudulently stolen. Are you actually claiming that the scale of absurdity between believing election fraud (something members of both parties claim, every losing election, going back decades[1]) and that Ukrainians are killing themselves, en masse, are remotely the same? 1. Here's Hilary Clinton continuing to make claims about 2016 in mainstream m…

Come on man. His is an example of real life “if gold rusts, what then of iron?”

If people with a free press believe propaganda and lies, what do you expect of people who only have a state-run propaganda machine?

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#102

Post by ineedasername »

randogeuebdb wrote: post #88

Not arguing against sanctions in general, but for South Africa, the collapse of the soviet union, which had been propping up the south african economy, played a more important role. https://reason.com/2013/12/06/did-economic-sanctions-help-en...

Economic pressure is usually cited as a primary factor leading to the end of apartheid, beginning in 1990, which is before the collapse of the former Soviet Union. I'm not disagreeing that the collapse played a part, but I think it's safe to say there was no single cause. Without ever-increasing sanctions the ball might not have started rolling in 1990. Without Soviet collapse it might not have unraveled quite as fast or in the way that it did.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#103

Post by graeme »

randogeuebdb wrote: post #88

Not arguing against sanctions in general, but for South Africa, the collapse of the soviet union, which had been propping up the south african economy, played a more important role. https://reason.com/2013/12/06/did-economic-sanctions-help-en...

Good article. However it doesn’t say the Soviet Union propped up South Africa.

Rather it says that the ANC (opposition) was supported by the Soviets. So the apartheid government argued that apartheid was necessary to keep out communism.

When the Soviets collapsed, this argument weakened and more people were convinced to dismantle apartheid.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#104

Post by unfocussed_mike »

shaky-carrousel wrote: post #99
itsoktocry wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

> Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Neither is the US. But you and me have seen during this pandemic, to people able to reason that pneumonia can kill, and covid can cause pneumonia, but unable to reason that covid can kill. Propaganda is like that. You only have to take a look at what sects do to people to see the kind of gymnastics people can do in their reasoning because propagand…

> You only have to take a look at what sects do to people to see the kind of gymnastics people can do in their reasoning because propaganda.

Or on the individual level -- I labour this point because I sadly see it in people I know -- at the kind of mental gymnastics an abused partner inevitably uses to explain away their situation and avoid challenging it.

The thing is, analysis paralysis happens even in situations without a malign actor.

Many malign actors have an instinctive, almost unknowing ability to exploit it.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#105

Post by tgb »

itsoktocry wrote: post #87
parkingrift wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A significant proportion of Americans believe the 2020 election was fraudulently stolen. And that’s with free press in America. Not at all hard to believe that a significant proportion of Russian people believe this lie.

> A significant proportion of Americans believe the 2020 election was fraudulently stolen. Are you actually claiming that the scale of absurdity between believing election fraud (something members of both parties claim, every losing election, going back decades[1]) and that Ukrainians are killing themselves, en masse, are remotely the same? 1. Here's Hilary Clinton continuing to make claims about 2016 in mainstream m…

Someone believing either the 2016 or 2020 US elections were “stolen” in any meaningful sense of the word would be under a similar level of propaganda to someone thinking that the Russian invasion is to stop Ukrainians killing each other, yes.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#106

Post by lovelyviking »

jug wrote: post #78

Yandex going belly up would certainly send a message to Russia Like Google Search going out in the western world

send message and then what? the propaganda there would tell that west is using any chance to put russia down and here is another example.

People in the west are too naive to realise that in russia no body asks what people think. The level of propaganda is so strong that people would believe whatever they are told.

The idiocy of those in the west who think that russians can decide something once they face sanctions is overwhelming. In the very long therm it may be but thus completely inadequate measure in the moment.

Another idiocy is to think that claiming that NATO isn’t the part of the conflict can prevent them to actually become a part of the conflict. The moment russia will decide they will invent the cause to attack just as they did with Ukraine.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#107

Post by sudosysgen »

can16358p wrote: post #91
sobkas wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in Turkey and we have a similar state propaganda (though fortunately not war). So what about Syria? Kurds are another topic you might want to look into (both inside and outside the Turkey). Azerbaijan-Armenia proxy war? It's not as easy as you think.

We don't have war here. Syria and refugees are part of a bigger plan. It's not like the government suddenly became philantrophic and wanted to help people running from war. For decades Kurds and Turks lived happily together. Again, government's agenda is to divide and conquer so they made Kurds "enemy" to some (gullible) part of the population. Surely it's not "easy" though my point stands: when you control mainstrea…

Your country is at war with Syria. So yes, you do live in war. It's not so noticeable however, I agree.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#108

Post by unfocussed_mike »

hprotagonist wrote: post #81
itsoktocry wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

I have a family member who ended a 60 year friendship yesterday because the other party, who lives in moscow, wholly embraces the russian propaganda line; up to and including telling my family member that it's impossible that the city they both grew up in has been being shelled for the last week, and it was just the west's lies.

How dreadful :-(

Yet again this week: this needs upvoting for visibility and downvoting for their experience.

Many in the UK and the USA in particular (but in Europe as well) can relate to this kind of experience of talking to someone who exists in an irrational belief bubble concerning one or two other topics.

But in most cases it doesn't have anywhere near the stark awfulness of this.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#109

Post by alm1 »

itsoktocry wrote: post #76
osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

if you speak Russian you can go on vk.com and check some of the exchanges on public groups. There are also few "interviewing regular Russians on the streets" videos circulating around.

To clarify the belief that was cultivated through propaganda is that there are reckless Nazi groups in Ukraine who stop at nothing to hurt russians. They were striking at ethnically russian regions of Ukraine for last 8 years. When Russia invaded to fight these groups they positioned their forces in the hospitals and schools. As they strike back they are hitting their own schools and hospitals mostly from being sloppy, because that's what they are and the equipment is old. And in some cases maliciously, because they need gruesome content for the west. Russian forces are doing precision strikes and hurt no civilians.

I think you underestimate how massive and elaborate Russian propaganda is. These stories are fed in pieces over weeks, sometimes years. For example it took multiple years to establish and cement the idea of Nazi groups in Ukraine. Now if you start at this belief it's not that far fetched to believe these groups have no regard for human life whether it is their foreign or their own.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#110

Post by throwaway894345 »

osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

I’ve been lurking on r/AskARussian lately and people there are pissed at the west for sanctions—they don’t understand why the west can’t just sanction Putin and cronies, and a good chunk of them also seem to think the west is hellbent on invading Russia and Putin’s war is necessary to stop the West from acquiring Ukraine (presumably a platform from which to invade Russia). And note that this sub is much less insane than r/russia whose mods are straight Russian state censors.

In other words, even the least-propagandized Russians seem to be heavily influenced.

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