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When families un-adopt a child (2018)

theatlantic.com

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Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#101

Post by notch656a »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #100
notch656a wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "society" feels responsible for the welfare of these kids, then society should recognize a kid is better off in a home where they are wanted. This is so obvious I don't understand why it even needs explained.

Given the number of children in foster care or worse, the choice isn't between being in a home where you're wanted and one where you're not wanted, it's being in a home where you're not wanted or not in a home. Which do you think is worse for a child?

False dichotomy. The unwanting family could seek a willing party to adopt the child.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#102

Post by iancmceachern »

notch656a wrote: post #88
Scubabear68 wrote: post #61

We adopted two older kids (age 3 and 7) when we were in our 40s/30s. It was very difficult and life changing in many ways. We sacrificed a lot to bring them into our lives. But - we knew that going into it. It has caused stress and strain and high blood pressure. But I also got to carry my son off the field on my shoulders when he ran in the the finally touch down to cap off an undefeated season. To hear my daughter…

How could you possibly know what an 15+ year commitment is like before going into it? Did you have kids prior to adopting? I don't think it's weird at all some people wish they could 'return' their kids. It's virtually impossible to truly know what it's like until you're in it.

Wish and do are different things. This is definitely one of those things you don't start unless your willing to finish it, no matter what.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#103

Post by coward123 »

Between high school and college I was a camp counselor. Had a camper who had been adopted out of a horrific situation somewhere in Central America. Was put into a home where I'm sure they were well-intentioned, but completely in over there heads as to the level of mental and emotional trauma this little guy had been through. I don't think he even made it through the full week of camp, and I would strongly suspect he ended up institutionalized somewhere.

I bring this up not to give anyone a free pass, but simply to say that I can well imagine there are cases where well-meaning people discover they are in way over their heads. Clearly it should be the goal of the system to not place a child into that situation in their first place, but I can see where it happens. As for some of these other stories where the adults are clearly just a bunch of jerks... again, would seem like the system should avoid that situation, but there is such a backlog of kids needing homes that it isn't hard to understand why it happens.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#104

Post by notch656a »

iancmceachern wrote: post #102
notch656a wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you possibly know what an 15+ year commitment is like before going into it? Did you have kids prior to adopting? I don't think it's weird at all some people wish they could 'return' their kids. It's virtually impossible to truly know what it's like until you're in it.

Wish and do are different things. This is definitely one of those things you don't start unless your willing to finish it, no matter what.

If the parents don't want the child, I don't see how the child is better off in a resented home than being adopted to someone who wants them. Un-adopting into another family that wants the kid sounds a hell of a lot better than living with those who don't want you.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#105

Post by TameAntelope »

notch656a wrote: post #94
TameAntelope wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wanting your kids isn’t really a feeling you should act on, nor is it a feeling society ought to let you indulge.

If "society" feels responsible for the welfare of these kids, then society should recognize a kid is better off in a home where they are wanted. This is so obvious I don't understand why it even needs explained.

A kid is not better off in a home where they are wanted, necessarily.

Continuity may be more important, and the state of “wanting” a child in your home is not some simple boolean value. It’s intellectually dishonest to pretend it is.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#106

Post by notch656a »

TameAntelope wrote: post #105
notch656a wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "society" feels responsible for the welfare of these kids, then society should recognize a kid is better off in a home where they are wanted. This is so obvious I don't understand why it even needs explained.

A kid is not better off in a home where they are wanted, necessarily. Continuity may be more important, and the state of “wanting” a child in your home is not some simple boolean value. It’s intellectually dishonest to pretend it is.

If you simply go by the metric of putting a kid in the home where they are best off, then we can dispense with saying the biological or adopted parents are "necessarily" where the kid should be. We now know you don't think children are "necessarily" better off where they are wanted. Instead perhaps we can use your metric, and assign child to a home where they're "better off" after birth rather than to their biological parents or the person who wants to adopt them. This system could mean assigning the child to an entirely different country and culture at birth "in the interest of the child."

>Continuity may be more important

Continuity is not the only factor at play here. Continuity can turn into a bad thing where you're continuously somewhere where you aren't wanted.

> and the state of “wanting” a child in your home is not some simple boolean value. It’s intellectually dishonest to pretend it is.

The article is about families "un-adopt" a child. It's intellectually dishonest, and ignorant, to make this statement in the context of an article where it's so incredibly into the boolean "false" state of wanting.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#107

Post by thrixton »

TameAntelope wrote: post #92
notch656a wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want your kids are you saying it's better off to keep them? Isn't adopting them out a way to make sure they have someone they can depend on? Seems to me it's more "disrespectful/weird/cowardly/inconsiderate" to make some kid suffer for years living in a home where they're unwanted.

Not wanting your kids isn’t really a feeling you should act on, nor is it a feeling society ought to let you indulge.

"...a feeling society ought to let you indulge."

Everyone has a limit, until you've been pushed past it (and even after), you don't know exactly where it is, and of course it can change.

Every child will have a different impact on your limits, I can certainly understand how a person could be pushed past their limits, by their own child and more-so a relatively unknown child, and I have a lot of sympathy for people in those situations (even the most horrific ones).

As for "society", "they", give parents very little support, it may be different for foster parents but without researching much, I don't have much faith.

Whether society "ought" to be setup this way, that's a hard one, make it too easy and we self-select for a bunch of massive families with an endless bill of support.

My feel is we're erring too much on the side of a lack of support, especially less "social" (e.g. scandinavian countries) focused countries such as USA, UK, AU.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#108

Post by iancmceachern »

notch656a wrote: post #104
iancmceachern wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish and do are different things. This is definitely one of those things you don't start unless your willing to finish it, no matter what.

If the parents don't want the child, I don't see how the child is better off in a resented home than being adopted to someone who wants them. Un-adopting into another family that wants the kid sounds a hell of a lot better than living with those who don't want you.

But I guess that's my point. Who would resent an adopted child? That's what they signed up for. It's more on the adopters poor reasons for choosing to adopt. I'm not disagreeing with you, just highlighting that it's not really a solution, as the problem isn't the child.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#109

Post by notch656a »

iancmceachern wrote: post #108
notch656a wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the parents don't want the child, I don't see how the child is better off in a resented home than being adopted to someone who wants them. Un-adopting into another family that wants the kid sounds a hell of a lot better than living with those who don't want you.

But I guess that's my point. Who would resent an adopted child? That's what they signed up for. It's more on the adopters poor reasons for choosing to adopt. I'm not disagreeing with you, just highlighting that it's not really a solution, as the problem isn't the child.

Putting the kid into a family where they're wanted isn't a solution?

Anyone who thinks they truly know what they're signed up for when adopting or birthing a kid is a liar. You can't predict what an 18 year commitment will be like to a human you barely know (adoption) or can't know (birth). If the adopted parents don't want the kid I'd much rather them gracefully bow out than force the kid into a situation that isn't working out.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#110

Post by ihateolives »

david38 wrote: post #99
mucholove wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably isn’t weird to think about returning the kids…but it is certainly weird to do it. More than weird, it is disrespectful, cowardly, and inconsiderate. When you decide to have kids by adoption or by natural birth—they should never be abandoned. No matter what they do—you are with them for those ~18 years and hopefully many more. Unlike a spouse—kids are dependents. And your commitment is to make sure they ha…

“No matter what” covers a lot of territory. What if your adopted child seriously harms your new baby because they have severe attachment disorder? Are psychopathic, whatever? Lots of children available for adoption have all kinds of problems that standard parents can’t deal with. Abandoning is one thing. Recognizing you’re in way over your head is another.

> What if your adopted child seriously harms your new baby because they have severe attachment disorder? Are psychopathic, whatever?

"Whatever" covers a lot of territory. Do you think "standard" children of "standard" parents don't do that? Where do you think all the school bullies and little entitled pricks and princesses come from? Some of them even manage to get elected in the office for some bizarre reason.

> Abandoning is one thing. Recognizing you’re in way over your head is another.

Abandoning your child is already a widespread thing, you just don't even think about it that way. It's when one of the parents walks away because they're "in way over my head". It's essentially cancelling the contract and saying fuck this, I can't do it.

So I really don't know where are you going with this.

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