Hey Google, I want my cache links back • Hacker News Board

Re: Hey Google, I want my cache links back

#101

Post by xnxn » Wed, Sep 28, 2011, 4:44 PM UTC

ugh wrote: post #97

xnxn wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they are. I don't have the example handy, so you'll have to take my word for it. My query was 'sqlalchemy "some quoted phrase"' and the first result didn't contain the phrase anywhere in the page. Out of desperation, I tried a +, and when that didn't work I sent my first feedback to Google.

Google couldn’t find anything and striped the quotes away.

To clarify, this was only the first result. The others did have the phrase, and it was highlighted in their snippets.

Re: Hey Google, I want my cache links back

#102

Post by rhizome » Wed, Sep 28, 2011, 4:45 PM UTC

ugh wrote: post #70

tomkinstinch wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

String literals seem to be ignored now too. ("quoted terms")

No, they are not. Only if Google can’t find anything – which makes a lot of sense.

Only if Google can’t find anything – which makes a lot of sense.

For me it doesn't, and it violates the Law of Demeter. If there are no results, tell me. Don't make me waste time wondering if any of the results have what I'm looking for, since there is no indication that the results I'm receiving are ancillary. Treating your users like they're idiots is evil.

Re: Hey Google, I want my cache links back

#103

Post by waqf » Wed, Sep 28, 2011, 4:48 PM UTC

xnxn wrote: post #94

ugh wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are not. Only if Google can’t find anything – which makes a lot of sense.

Yes, they are. I don't have the example handy, so you'll have to take my word for it. My query was 'sqlalchemy "some quoted phrase"' and the first result didn't contain the phrase anywhere in the page. Out of desperation, I tried a +, and when that didn't work I sent my first feedback to Google.

That has been happening for years. If you click through to the cached version of the result, which is marked up to highlight your search terms, Google provides an excuse: "These terms were found only in links pointing to this page:".

I've always had my doubts as to whether they really were found in links.

Re: Hey Google, I want my cache links back

#104

Post by waqf » Wed, Sep 28, 2011, 4:51 PM UTC

cooperadymas wrote: post #20

ars wrote: post #4

This does not bode well for the employees at google. You get extra features like this (instant preview) when you have too much manpower - you look for things for your employees to do. But if your customers don't want it, and you can't find anything else for them to do then you start reducing the workforce.

When Google released Instant Preview they claimed it increases click through rates to a website. This makes me think a good number of customers do want it. Edit: here is the announcement: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/beyond-instant-result... "In our testing, we’ve found that people who use Instant Previews are about 5% more likely to be satisfied with the results they click. "

How do they measure satisfaction? Is it that people are assumed to have been satisfied with their results if they don't come back?

Re: Hey Google, I want my cache links back

#105

Post by troutwine » Wed, Sep 28, 2011, 4:52 PM UTC

ugh wrote: post #99

rhizome wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does not ignore quoted terms. Many times it seems like it does, to the extent that I've even gone back and replaced double-quotes with singles in hopes that the parser distinguishes literals.

Well, Google sensibly ignore quotes if it doesn’t find anything which is probably what happened to you. Would you rather Google to just display that it found nothing?

Yes.

Re: Hey Google, I want my cache links back

#106

Post by ellyagg » Wed, Sep 28, 2011, 5:25 PM UTC

wgx wrote: post #78

ugh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s that cruft you are talking about? Ignoring for a moment the cache link (I’m not sure how many people use it, maybe it’s worth testing whether Google could do with it being a bit more hidden) Google’s results page is very sparse and only provides truly useful tools. I use Google’s ability to search for links from a specific time frame all the time, for example. I couldn’t do without it, it’s also accessible and…

For me, more than visual cruft (although I would argue there is more of that than before) - it's interaction cruft. Big annoyances for me: 1. Auto suggesting and searching for words I didn't mean - common with technical phrases 2. Ignoring "quoted terms" and searching for them as an AND instead 3. Auto refreshing the results page as I modify my terms - it makes the experience slower, and I don't need to see results f…

I can't scroll the page with the up/down arrows. It don't get why no one mentions this. Sometimes I'm afraid they're targeting just me. Is it really the right trade-off to steal the arrow key to scroll the results with a cursor? Who uses that feature? Leave my arrows alone.

Re: Hey Google, I want my cache links back

#107

Post by tikhonj » Wed, Sep 28, 2011, 5:47 PM UTC

ellyagg wrote: post #106

wgx wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, more than visual cruft (although I would argue there is more of that than before) - it's interaction cruft. Big annoyances for me: 1. Auto suggesting and searching for words I didn't mean - common with technical phrases 2. Ignoring "quoted terms" and searching for them as an AND instead 3. Auto refreshing the results page as I modify my terms - it makes the experience slower, and I don't need to see results f…

I can't scroll the page with the up/down arrows. It don't get why no one mentions this. Sometimes I'm afraid they're targeting just me. Is it really the right trade-off to steal the arrow key to scroll the results with a cursor? Who uses that feature? Leave my arrows alone.

Really? I find being able to go through the results using the arrows very useful. When I'm doing a Google search, I want to get to a web site, optimally without using the mouse. Having this feature routinely saves me from having to use the mouse, which is particularly nice on a laptop.

Having the arrow keys go directly to search results is very useful especially because it takes three or four times less presses to navigate that way than using tab. Besides, if I want to scroll, I can always use the space bar--it's faster anyhow.

Re: Hey Google, I want my cache links back

#108

Post by notatoad » Wed, Sep 28, 2011, 5:52 PM UTC

wladimir wrote: post #5

I don't agree this is necessarily bad. Arguably, "view cache" is a feature for power-users that know what they're doing. Moving the cache link into that pop-up did simplify the user interface in the most common case, in which the user just wants to view the real link. It no longer has to be rendered for every result. IMO it just takes some getting used to that the cache link has been moved. Or are you viewing pages f…

yeah, i can't agree with the author's assessment that this isn't a UI improvement. part of a good UI is to only present the elements that a user needs. they have moved an obscure feature to an obscure location. it amuses me that there are so many people in the comments here complaining both that google has become less minimal, and that they've removed stuff - minimalism is less stuff.

Re: Hey Google, I want my cache links back

#109

Post by icebraining » Wed, Sep 28, 2011, 6:05 PM UTC

staunch wrote: post #98

icebraining wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike services like that. Searches cost real money to Google, using them through that is almost stealing, in my opinion. Just use a different search engine. EDIT: I'd like if someone would reply if they disagree. Do you dispute that each search costs money to Google, or what?

This is absurd. It's like worrying about charging your laptop in Google's offices because it increases their electricity bill.

I wouldn't charge my laptop in anyone's office (or home) without asking them and receiving permission. I don't see what's absurd about this.

Re: Hey Google, I want my cache links back

#110

Post by icebraining » Wed, Sep 28, 2011, 6:10 PM UTC

thematt wrote: post #93

icebraining wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike services like that. Searches cost real money to Google, using them through that is almost stealing, in my opinion. Just use a different search engine. EDIT: I'd like if someone would reply if they disagree. Do you dispute that each search costs money to Google, or what?

I feel no guilt. Google's main revenue stream is advertisements, which I will never click on. Yet, I still use Google continuously. Does that mean I'm stealing? Either way I'm getting something for free and not contributing to their revenue.

Hmm, I suppose that's true - I never click them either, if only because my eyes skip them unconsciously - but on the other hand, accepting $20 from my aunt or taking it from her wallet are very different, despite her ending up with the same money.