The underground economy of solitary confinement • Hacker News Board

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#101

Post by FpUser » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 7:37 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #27

What is the alternative to solitary confinement? There are some people who are a persistent threat and menace to others. There are 3 ways that society has dealt with them: Execution Banishment Imprisonment We are trying to do away with execution, so that is not a real alternative. Banishment really doesn't work in the modern, connected world. That leaves imprisonment. However, within prison, you also have a society,…

>" But I have not heard a really good alternative."

The solution is to enforce your own fucking laws when those are broken by prison stuff and higher ups

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#102

Post by vkou » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 7:39 PM UTC

ROTMetro wrote: post #81

randomacct8162 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first two weeks were very difficult. You have to sort of mentally come to peace with the fact that you're shut in this tiny room and you can't leave. It feels very claustrophobic and if you're the type that has anxiety disorders you will probably have to ward off panic attacks. After the first two weeks, time started to slowly speed up, and the days all sort of blurred together. Thankfully I was able to get a new…

Also, at least where I was, this was EVERYONE's life (no just solitary) for a year due to COVID. Only with no legal protections, all constitutional requirements waived, because, you know, emergency, and totally not just because the staff were lazy and this allowed them to do zero work.

Edit: My reading comprehension is very, very poor.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#103

Post by lupire » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 7:40 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #26

randomacct8162 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on computers a lot as a kid and sort of taught myself programming (very poorly) in my early years. When I caught this charge, I had just turned 18. It really ruined my life. Currently, I work in tech. For a very long time I was barely making ends meet, working in a fast food restaurant for minimum wage while trying to interview to get a developer job. I went through 8 interview processes, and received offers fr…

I never understood the whole felon thing, if that is allowed discrimination outside certain roles how can those people ever be expected back to society? Ofc, they are going to do more crime if it is their only realistic option for reasonable income.

It seems fair for felons to work minimum wage last resort jobs, because non-felons surely deserve the same or better. But why are minimum wage last resort jobs so bad in this country?

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#104

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 7:43 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #26

randomacct8162 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on computers a lot as a kid and sort of taught myself programming (very poorly) in my early years. When I caught this charge, I had just turned 18. It really ruined my life. Currently, I work in tech. For a very long time I was barely making ends meet, working in a fast food restaurant for minimum wage while trying to interview to get a developer job. I went through 8 interview processes, and received offers fr…

I never understood the whole felon thing, if that is allowed discrimination outside certain roles how can those people ever be expected back to society? Ofc, they are going to do more crime if it is their only realistic option for reasonable income.

Why "outside certain roles"?

If the argument is that serving your time in jail rehabilitates you, then you shouldn't be limited in what roles you can take after you've served your time.

I assume the "certain roles" you are talking about is something like banking with someone with a history of felony fraud. I guess the argument is that maybe prison isn't 100% rehabilitative. But if that's the case, why should I, as a non-banker, hire a felon who, say assaulted a stranger with a baseball bat. Isn't there a similar chance that prison wasn't 100% rehabilitative?

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#105

Post by lupire » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 7:45 PM UTC

kingcharles wrote: post #54

I did three stints in solitary. First for writing to my wife and explaining how I traded coffee for stamped envelopes, which got me an extortion charge. On the last day of my "sentence" in solitary I had my trial and was found "not guilty" of the charge. Of course, it was like Alice in Wonderland, I did my time then got my trial. (during this time in solitary though they went through all my property and figured out I…

After such ongoing illegal torture, why don't former prisoners or their loved ones get together and execute serious reprisals?

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#106

Post by jknoepfler » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 7:45 PM UTC

ROTMetro wrote: post #81

randomacct8162 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first two weeks were very difficult. You have to sort of mentally come to peace with the fact that you're shut in this tiny room and you can't leave. It feels very claustrophobic and if you're the type that has anxiety disorders you will probably have to ward off panic attacks. After the first two weeks, time started to slowly speed up, and the days all sort of blurred together. Thankfully I was able to get a new…

Also, at least where I was, this was EVERYONE's life (no just solitary) for a year due to COVID. Only with no legal protections, all constitutional requirements waived, because, you know, emergency, and totally not just because the staff were lazy and this allowed them to do zero work.

Are you describing conditions in a prison in the USA outside of solitary confinement? (That's the only way I can make sense of the reply).

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#107

Post by wolfgangK » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 7:45 PM UTC

Akronymus wrote: post #36

matheusmoreira wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit I didn't know that. Those guards belong in jail themselves, what they did is torture. Prison exists to remove from society people who are incompatible with it, nothing more and even that must be constantly questioned and re-evaluated. Nobody deserves to have their dignity stripped away like that.

It also exists to make people compatible with society again. Or at least should be.

I'm sure most people would want that, but I don't think that we know how to "make people" change. Much in the same way that we don't know how to have school "make children" more academic, we don't know how to make inmates less violent / impulsive / thrill-seeking (except by the inexorable passing of time). I'd be very happy to be corrected, tho.

OTOH, giving proper (i.e. often involuntary) treatment for violent mental illnesses would for sure improve the situation.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#108

Post by xapata » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 7:48 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #62

xapata wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could leave town. There's always another option.

You need to be able to save up enough for a rent deposit (often 2-3 months of rent), afford moving costs, coordinate support for kids if you're moving away from existing support (other family/friend/etc), and deal with a lot of stress of moving out of town. If you have something better you're moving to, but that's often hard for people to coordinate. Spending all that to go get a similar pay job, perhaps in same indu…

> ... deal with a lot of stress ... have something better you're moving to ...

Thus the ethical argument. They'd rather keep doing what they're doing than pick the stress and uncertainty of moving.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#109

Post by lupire » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 7:48 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #42

Dieselroar88 wrote: post #24

Did 20 months in federal for selling cannabis. Also spent time in solitary. Conditions are far worse than you could imagine. Also, many prisons are functionally solitary so the 4% number is way low. The economic networks in prisons are wild, and of course there are incentives for guards to participate. Not only are there massive number of cell phones in prisons, there are cell phones in solitary because the guards sm…

> The economic networks in prisons are wild, and of course there are incentives for guards to participate. maybe a naive question, but where does all the money come from? I can understand that prisoners would trade favors and artificially scarce items (eg cigarettes) amongst themselves. but what's in it for the guards? I wouldn't expect a bunch of people that aren't allowed to have jobs to have a ton of cash to throw…

Money comes from outside family and friends.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#110

Post by watwut » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 7:49 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #80

watwut wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more about power then about working with bad people. Political prisoners tend to be treated as badly as others, if not worst.

I agree that power is a factor, I just don't think it is a self contained explanation.

People in position oc control and no supervision abuse those outside of prisons often enough.