Live data from Hacker News

Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

reuters.com

101–110 of 452 posts

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#101

90%! Did we really let ourselves become so reliant on Ukraine and Taiwan for computer chips? Taiwan being the next country most under threat. In fact, Reuters just reported that "Taiwan warns Chinese aircraft in its air defence zone" https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-reports-ni...

I see same case with companies moving to aws

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#102

90%! Did we really let ourselves become so reliant on Ukraine and Taiwan for computer chips? Taiwan being the next country most under threat. In fact, Reuters just reported that "Taiwan warns Chinese aircraft in its air defence zone" https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-reports-ni...

Do you want a scary thought? Imagine if Taiwan gets invaded and China manages to steal all of America's computer chip designs. Technology problems solved.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#103
post #87
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I blame the governments mostly for this, I completely understand the businesses needing to do what’s best for business. How do you blame government for businesses running around with planning models that miss wars and pandemics, the two most common causes of ruin and disruption for the entire duration of human history?

...Because making sure businesses in economies plan for that sort of thing is generally something that you have to be a non-transient actor to ensure. Businesses/corps come and go ... the Nation of $nation only tends to do so on the next timescale up. When their actually looking out for systemic blindspots no one else is, and not pandering to the elite.

Also (or as a corollary), otherwise businesses have no incentive to plan for rare, adverse events. They will be out-competed by businesses that don't care.

Personally I think the solution is for governments to have a contingency plan, and opposed to forcing any individual business to do anything, but if we did want businesses to change their behavior, it's definitely a government issue.

Unless somehow "buy my product , it's more expensive because our business hedges against war and pandemics" works in advertising (eco-friendly seems to get some traction, so maybe?)

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#104

90%! Did we really let ourselves become so reliant on Ukraine and Taiwan for computer chips? Taiwan being the next country most under threat. In fact, Reuters just reported that "Taiwan warns Chinese aircraft in its air defence zone" https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-reports-ni...

It’s worth noting that Chinese incursions into Taiwan’s ADIZ are a routine occurrence and don’t really represent any increase in aggression above the baseline: “On Wednesday (February 23), two Chinese military jets flew into Taiwan's air defence identification zone (ADIZ), marking the 12th intrusion this month.” https://www.wionews.com/world/two-chinese-fighter-jets-enter...

[deleted]

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#105
post #18

90%! Did we really let ourselves become so reliant on Ukraine and Taiwan for computer chips? Taiwan being the next country most under threat. In fact, Reuters just reported that "Taiwan warns Chinese aircraft in its air defence zone" https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-reports-ni...

But we saved some money by shuttering all our factories and outsourcing everything, so, who's to say what the right answer was. (/s)

Yeah that's your answer right there. American management, at least those who go to business school, like how can I put it fairly to the people I know who've studied business...They just fucking hate paying wages. It's a huge business school teaching to treat wages and taxes as counterproductive. Are you really going to propose American management likes paying taxes? The fair thing to say is they fucking hate paying taxes. Those words carry the real emphasis of the negative emotion, I'm not trying to be pejorative, that's just how they actually feel about that matter. I've seen businesses decline quite profitable opportunities because they'd produce too much in taxes in the process, from some double taxation effect.

So then, the MBA just has to hate the factory. After all, that was where everybody used to get their wage.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#106
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we in favor of economics/capitalism here or are we not? Because the economics literature is quite clear that international trade is beneficial to all involved. It's what we insist that developing countries focus on exports when loaning them money. For many years, Taiwan has been the poster child that we point to when trying to change the ways of Cuba or Venezuela. Are these principles so weak that we would allow…

> Because the economics literature is quite clear that international trade is beneficial to all involved. If you narrowly focus on economics, yes. But what are other consequences, outside of economics? By outsourcing everything, you lose control. You allow uncontrollable external factors to affect you. You open yourself to be blackmailed. So in a way yes, those principles are weak because they are incomplete. They do…

In theory by allowing private entities to run these businesses you're also losing control. If you need absolute control then what you're asking for is a command economy - I lean toward socialism but that's a bridge too far for me.

Some supply chain instability is the result of allowing healthy economic activity especially when the modern goods we're talking about are immensely complex and require incredible specialization to reasonably manufacture.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#107

90%! Did we really let ourselves become so reliant on Ukraine and Taiwan for computer chips? Taiwan being the next country most under threat. In fact, Reuters just reported that "Taiwan warns Chinese aircraft in its air defence zone" https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-reports-ni...

It’s worth noting that Chinese incursions into Taiwan’s ADIZ are a routine occurrence and don’t really represent any increase in aggression above the baseline: “On Wednesday (February 23), two Chinese military jets flew into Taiwan's air defence identification zone (ADIZ), marking the 12th intrusion this month.” https://www.wionews.com/world/two-chinese-fighter-jets-enter...

In part, because Taiwan's ADIZ extends over mainland China.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JADIZ_and_CADIZ_and_...

(ADIZs are also unilateral and not something set up in international law; they're basically a request)

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#108
post #18

90%! Did we really let ourselves become so reliant on Ukraine and Taiwan for computer chips? Taiwan being the next country most under threat. In fact, Reuters just reported that "Taiwan warns Chinese aircraft in its air defence zone" https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-reports-ni...

But we saved some money by shuttering all our factories and outsourcing everything, so, who's to say what the right answer was. (/s)

At least in terms of semi manufacturing, we tried our hardest (visit Gilbert and Chandler AZ), we just were worse than Taiwan.

Believe it or not, that's often the real reason we shut down, people just blame it on cost savings for pride.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#109
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a Chinese raised in China myself, this happens pretty regularly since years ago. I don’t think Winnie the Pooh has big balls to attack Taiwan in recent future. China has too much to lose right now.

> I don’t think Winnie the Pooh has big balls to attack Taiwan in recent future. Not disagreeing with you, but I think people generally incorrectly assume that a dictator with absolute power thinks and acts rationally.

Ironically, I think the above statement is irrational.

Why does being a dictator automatically make you more irrational? Absolute power has no direct causal bearing on human intelligence. It does not make you more irrational or more rational.

There are plenty of examples of good kings, bad kings, good emperors and bad emperors throughout history both for ancient china and plenty of other civilizations. Modern China, despite all the negative press, has done plenty of rational things in order to get toe to toe with the US as both a military and economic rival.

I think the negative connotation associated with the word dictator paints anyone labeled with it in a biased light. Not saying anything bad or good about pooh bear in general. Whatever that man is, him being a dictator is not a causal origin of his current character.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#110
post #29

Since it's extracted from the air, it shouldn't be too hard to start doing it here. I assume we do this for other gases already, so ramping it up for Neon may not be that difficult.

This is exactly why this is a non-issue. It's not like the air over the Ukraine is magically richer in neon.

It's not a non-issue. You can't extract it from air with tweezers, you need to build a lot of equipment. It takes a long time to build a chemical plant, and if Intel is sitting idle until that plant is built... well, that's an enormous problem.
Post reply on HN