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Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

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Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#101

Post by freedomben »

nikodunk wrote: post #10
sudders wrote: post #6

Can't wait for framework laptop to run Linux/Ubuntu stable (without battery drain issues) Then I'll be switching all the developers in our company over to a new machine. (Currently running XPS 13, but we are due an upgrade, especially on memory)

Is this an issue for Ubuntu specifically or all distributions? Read somewhere that they recommended Fedora 35 for the best driver support at the moment, though that'll probably change after the next releases of 22.04 and F36. Awesome that you're switching your whole team to Frameworks - my next work laptop will for sure be a Framework too :)

The main reason for this is that the drivers are in the kernel, and Fedora ships new kernels regularly. Ubuntu and many other distros will stay on the same version they initially ship with. For example if they start with 5.14.2 then even a couple years later it will be 5.14.86-200. Fedora tends to ship new major versions of the kernel within weeks of them being released upstream, so you're constantly getting bug fixes and new drivers. I prefer the ubuntu approach for servers (which is how RHEL/CentOS do it) but for desktop it's great to see it continually get better.

If you build/install the latest kernel (or a newer one) on Ubuntu I would expect a similar experience to Fedora (although Gnome and wayland versions can make a difference on some things.)

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#102

Post by freedomben »

Gigachad wrote: post #87
deadmutex wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then the posts will be "I'll order it once they build a custom ARM soc" :).

By the time they work that out, RISC-V will be the new trend.

I'll be among the first to buy a RISC-V based framework :-D

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#103

Post by dymk »

freedomben wrote: post #94
kinduff wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am really excited about this laptop but I'm reading reviews like this a lot more now that they are delivering. Their community forum has a lot of users asking for solutions for the problems you mentioned and even Linux compatibility issues. I really hope they fix these issues too. A friend made a joke, which I find hilarious: "you can always replace all the parts that are failing, isn't that the point?".

I was an early user and I've run into a couple of problems on mine, but Framework does a good job getting information out there and fixing things. Much better experience than I've had with other vendors where once it ships that's it.

That’s because if they didn’t fix these issues, they’d not have the chance to ship another product.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#104

Post by Const-me »

Good one, but IMO a bit too expensive for the specs.

I recently got a new laptop with Ryzen 5 5600U, 32GB RAM, and 2TB SSD. The laptop is HP ProBook 445 G8. RAM and SSD were sold separately, the upgrade only took 10 minutes and 6 screws. I paid less than €1000 including the upgrades.

The laptop is comparable to the Framework professional they offer for €2280. AMD CPU is better, 15442 versus 11036 points of cpubenchmark.net (that’s 6 cores versus 4). Surprisingly, Intel GPU is better, 2 versus 1.6 TFlops FP32. RAM amount is the same, AMD has twice the SSD storage.

The only large downside is the display, my laptop has 16x9 1080p 14” IPS, the Framework has more pixels and 3x2 aspect ratio.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#105

Post by freedomben »

hutzlibu wrote: post #75
imilk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been waiting for a Linux that "just works" for decades. And they'll probably still be waiting for the next 20 years. But that's not really the point of using Linux.

"But that's not really the point of using Linux." That philosophy is probably part of the reason, why linux on the desktop stays in its small niche inside tech circles. Most people, myself included, indeed want a system that "just works" - to get the actual work done. And then if the basics work, I can enjoy the full freedom to tweak it to my needs in infinity. But only very few people enjoy "freedom to tinker", when…

I'm pretty competent/qualified to tinker with my Linux, but I still much prefer a "just works" approach too. I think most in the community do. I don't want a "Just works because everything is hyper-locked down" but that's a much different thing IMHO.

Fortunately most distros have gotten to where we are. Fedora works amazingly well OOTB on so much hardware, and I've heard great things about Pop and other popular distros.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#106

Post by freedomben »

isaac21259 wrote: post #13
humanwhosits wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but when you look at the ordering page, it doesn't mention linux as an OS option, just Windows or no OS

Do you think a significant amount of people who want to run Linux will want it preinstalled for them?

Yes. The linux market is extremely diverse. The sheer amount of distros and DEs is pretty good evidence of this. It doesn't even have to be different people.

For personal laptops/desktop I don't care if it's preinstalled for me or not since the very first boot is going straight into my usb installer since it's extremely unlikely that they checked all the boxes I will check (especially getting my LUKS passphrase correct!!). But for my wife or parent's laptop that's exactly what I want. If dad runs linux I can help him out a ton more, even SSHing into his machine to set things up or install updates, etc, but I'd prefer he be able to turn the thing on and connect it to his wifi and start using it without me having to be there.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#107

Post by rgrmrts »

abstract_put wrote: post #50
yumraj wrote: post #41

Any plans for 15" anytime soon? I just hope my current laptop can hold out till whenever that is, else it'll have to be the 16" MBP with $400 for 32GB RAM upgrade :(

I'm really hopeful a 15" is not too distant (but seems like it might be). I have an aging Dell XPS 9550, but there's not been much I've wanted to jump at. I looked briefly at the System76 Kudu - are there any go-to 15" Linux-friendly workstations? It seems a lot of developer-type folks have moved to cloud focused work, at least in my bubble the raw computing power seems to be less and less valued.

I just got a Dell Precision 5560. I’m running FreeBSD on it, but based on hardware Linux should run well.

It’s pretty powerful so far (comparable to my 2019 i9 mbp roughly but I haven’t measured).

I’m not sure what battery life will be like. I haven’t finished tuning my installation so I can’t really measure reliably. Overall the hardware is really solid though.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#108

Post by freedomben »

dymk wrote: post #103
freedomben wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an early user and I've run into a couple of problems on mine, but Framework does a good job getting information out there and fixing things. Much better experience than I've had with other vendors where once it ships that's it.

That’s because if they didn’t fix these issues, they’d not have the chance to ship another product.

Incentives are aligned! that's great!

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#110

Post by GauntletWizard »

frakkingcylons wrote: post #44
aunty_helen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta hardware. The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on charger over night if I want to use it the next day. However, the thing that's really stopping me from us…

> The mac-book killer was very much hyperbole from paid reviewers. Hold on. Which reviewers received payments in return for positive coverage of the laptop?

Not that I agree with the characterization, but they might be referring to Linus Sebastian of Linux Tech Tips, who invested a bunch of money into the company:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSxbc1IN9Gg

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