Official Response: Request to Freeze Canadian Edge Users’ Accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: Official Response: Request to Freeze Canadian Edge Users’ Accounts

#101

Post by kennywinker » Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 4:49 PM UTC

csee wrote: post #100

kennywinker wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So was it wrong for the Montgomery bus boycott to intentionally cause economic harm? Was it wrong for gandhi to break the salt monopoly, causing economic harm? It seems like either you’re applying different standards because you feel different about the causes - or you oppose the actions of some of the most celebrated icons of the past 100 years of social change - unless there’s a third position i’m missing

I don't think it was right or wrong. That is the wrong lens. I just think we need to arrest them after a certain threshold of harm. Here's a reductio ad absurdum of the position that all economic harm should be tolerated: Should we allow a small group of 5 protestors to blockade the tarmac of an international airport and shut it down for 10 years? On what principle would you prevent that if you have declared support…

Ok, let’s roll with that. Should we allow a small group of 5 protestors to blockade the tarmac of an international airport and shut it down for 10 years if their cause has the support of 51% of the population.

Because i’d say yes we should allow that. We in the us and canada have governments that are proven to be unresponsive to the will of the people without the people giving the government a shove from time to time. If the majority supports a cause, the government should act - if it doesn’t, let the economy suffer until they do.

I also believe a different test applies when we’re talking about indigenous land. I.e. it’s no longer about a majority of the population - it’s about a majority of the people who’s land it is.

Re: Official Response: Request to Freeze Canadian Edge Users’ Accounts

#102

Post by csee » Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 11:16 PM UTC

kennywinker wrote: post #101

csee wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it was right or wrong. That is the wrong lens. I just think we need to arrest them after a certain threshold of harm. Here's a reductio ad absurdum of the position that all economic harm should be tolerated: Should we allow a small group of 5 protestors to blockade the tarmac of an international airport and shut it down for 10 years? On what principle would you prevent that if you have declared support…

Ok, let’s roll with that. Should we allow a small group of 5 protestors to blockade the tarmac of an international airport and shut it down for 10 years if their cause has the support of 51% of the population. Because i’d say yes we should allow that. We in the us and canada have governments that are proven to be unresponsive to the will of the people without the people giving the government a shove from time to time…

Well then we just disagree. If you think an unlimited amount of economic harm is acceptable for any protest objective (not just those with majority support, no idea where you got that assumption from), this is simply naive and dangerous.

I don't want to pay tax and therefore I will shut down all international trade forever in order to protest my views on the matter, and you will support my right to do that? That's a reductio ad absurdum of your position. It is not workable.

Re: Official Response: Request to Freeze Canadian Edge Users’ Accounts

#103

Post by kennywinker » Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 1:54 AM UTC

csee wrote: post #102

kennywinker wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, let’s roll with that. Should we allow a small group of 5 protestors to blockade the tarmac of an international airport and shut it down for 10 years if their cause has the support of 51% of the population. Because i’d say yes we should allow that. We in the us and canada have governments that are proven to be unresponsive to the will of the people without the people giving the government a shove from time to time…

Well then we just disagree. If you think an unlimited amount of economic harm is acceptable for any protest objective (not just those with majority support, no idea where you got that assumption from), this is simply naive and dangerous. I don't want to pay tax and therefore I will shut down all international trade forever in order to protest my views on the matter, and you will support my right to do that? That's a…

What? If the majority of people support your desire to not pay taxes, a _functioning_ democratic society would quickly pass the "2022 csee tax exemption bill". While you'd probably start bleeding support for your cause if you shut down all international trade, basically any measures are justified at that point because the government is no longer being responsive to the will of the people. If the government is allowed to go ahead and arrest people for that, that's the literal definition authoritarianism.

If the majority does NOT support your demand, then yes your right to protest can be limited by others right to go about their lives. The more disruptive your protest, the less room there is to tolerate it. But a simple threshold of harm as you argued for is not the right test for this. Harm and public support. If 40% of people support your cause, a democratic society would not enact that cause - but it would tolerate more economic harm than a cause supported by 0.4% of the people.

Re: Official Response: Request to Freeze Canadian Edge Users’ Accounts

#104

Post by tastyfreeze » Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

philistine wrote: post #99

tastyfreeze wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you want your institution to do when the government decides that your money is no longer yours because you supported somebody they don't like? That is what is happening here. A government attempt to silence dissidents.

Take a chill pill. The money is frozen, not seized.

If you don't have absolute control of your money it isn't yours.