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25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

init7.net

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Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#101

Post by jagrsw »

dcow wrote: post #85
_nickwhite wrote: post #81

It would be great to see ISPs in the USA, even rural or municipal ISPs begin offering this. The biggest issue I see with doing this (for residential users) is the fiber handoff. For 25Gbit, the very minimum is going to be a SFP28 module with an LC connector. The linked Init7 article is a bit light on details, but consumer grade hardware is not even close to that that in 2022. (SFP Ports OR the packet processing power…

MikroTik has a sub $500 unit that supports SFP28: CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS. It’s getting close.

Though beware, its CPU is probably not fast enough to route 25Gb/s with typical setup (NAT, a few firewall rules). More like 15-20Gb/s. Mikrotik itsef says 13Gbps with 25 filter rules.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#102

Post by littlestymaar »

wyager wrote: post #27
sschueller wrote: post #20

The reason this is available for this price in every house in the city of Zürich is because of a law that passed requiring every house to have fiber. The infrastructure is operated by the power and phone company and any service provider can use this fiber. I hope the whole of Switzerland will do something similar because there are still a lot of places without good internet and fiber is quite future proof. Home offic…

> fiber is quite future proof To give an example - OS2 single-mode fiber is the standard fiber for contemporary datacenter deployments and I assume also for last-mile deployments. It's super cheap (less than 20cpf for indoor cable, whereas cat7 copper is closer to 60cpf), has an insane range (a standard $25 fiber PHY can operate with a cable from 0m-10km), and has an insane bandwidth limit (it's currently used for ev…

> If you're wiring a home today, I would 100% use OS2 over CatN unless you also need PoE.

It would be future-proof but not present proof, as you likely don't have anything else than RJ45 plugs on your devices…

On the other hand, replacing a cable in a conduit by a fiber is a half-hour task (you just stick the fiber to the cable, then pull the fiber with the cable) so it's not really worth it to be future proof in this case. You'll only be saving a hundred bucks in cable by doing so.

Source: I wired my entire home last year.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#103

Post by jagrsw »

hocuspocus wrote: post #91
jagrsw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's big competition esp. in the Zurich area. I don't understand all historical peculiarities behind this, but it has something to do with monopolistic position of Swisscom - their old national telecom company. As a part of de-monopolization they made it lease links to any willing ISP (bit-stream access?), so many ISPs arose, and they have relatively "cheap" and advanced offerings: 1Gb/s, 10Gb/s, 25Gb/s, fixed IPs…

Unbundling (the copper lines) and open fiber deployments are different things. Many municipalities still haven't gotten fiber deployments from the local utilities, and in practice you can be stuck on Swisscom's fiber. It's not too bad since several ISPs are also able to use it: for instance Sunrise before (I'm not sure they still allow it), but also Init7 (their Hybrid7 offering). However an ISP like Salt uses only o…

> but soon after the Comco has stopped Swisscom from using P2MP which is a big setback

Yup, I'm using some 3rd party ISP. I have from them 1Gb/s (ODC - optical direct link), and the first hop is their IP.

And also 10Gb/s via Swisscom's XGS-PON. Here the first 2-3 hops are located within Swisscom's net (except the immediate gateway). I guess init7 complained about it - i.e. paying more for using Swisscom's L3 net, instead of leasing fiber?

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#104

Post by sschueller »

anotherboffin wrote: post #24
sschueller wrote: post #20

The reason this is available for this price in every house in the city of Zürich is because of a law that passed requiring every house to have fiber. The infrastructure is operated by the power and phone company and any service provider can use this fiber. I hope the whole of Switzerland will do something similar because there are still a lot of places without good internet and fiber is quite future proof. Home offic…

I also hope all of Switzerland would do this. Downgrading from fiber to ADSL is ok, but was definitely not fun.

I'm glad init7 went to the government to complain about the new "fiber" Swisscom decided to deploy in some places that would make it impossible for competitors to provide full service.

I am also glad the government saw that it was an anti-competitive move and blocked it.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#105

Post by uvesten »

bauruine wrote: post #60
uvesten wrote: post #48

This is the ISP that I’m using, and they are insanely great, imho. I especially like that you get a static IPv6 /28 for free, something that has finally made me learn IPv6 in depth. Still only on 1 Gb/s fiber though, because I havent found any router that is 10 or 25 Gbps that I’d really like to have at home. Are there any good consumer-grade 10 or 25 gbps routers? Also, what is up with all computers _still_ having 1…

>static IPv6 /28 I guess you mean /48. Even as a LIR the default assignment from RIPE is a /32.

Yup, typo!

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#106

Post by Youden »

bullen wrote: post #30

The problem with >1GB/s is the energy you need to saturate it. 10GB/s needs a 10+W router and you'll need atleast 50W of compute behind that. On lead-acid if you want long battery life and a good uptime you'll need atleast 4x 50Ah batteries. 25GB/s does not scale without waste unless you are ok with having 10x lead-acid batteries in the room where you live/sleep because that energy is heating. Dunno about the hydroge…

Careful with case. 1GB = 1 Gigabyte. 1Gb = 1 Gigabit.

Init7, the subject of this thread, supplies 25Gb/s, not 25GB/s.

And why are batteries being brought into the discussion? This is a fibre service, it only operates in fixed installations, where grid electricity is available.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#107

Post by mlyle »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #44
jsjohnst wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You also want something better than cat5 for home wiring. For 25Gbps? Or are you meaning for the 1gbps you have? If the former, of course, but otherwise Cat5e can handle 10GbE if you have good connections and the loop length isn’t too long.

Cat5 and cat5e are different though. Cat5 struggles with 1gbps.

> Cat5 struggles with 1gbps.

1000baseT requires plain old category 5 for distances of up to 100m.

Most plain category 5 out there will have no problem with 2.5gbase-T at 30m and less.

(And, of course, most "cat 5" is actually "cat 5e".

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#108

Post by krallja »

uvesten wrote: post #48

This is the ISP that I’m using, and they are insanely great, imho. I especially like that you get a static IPv6 /28 for free, something that has finally made me learn IPv6 in depth. Still only on 1 Gb/s fiber though, because I havent found any router that is 10 or 25 Gbps that I’d really like to have at home. Are there any good consumer-grade 10 or 25 gbps routers? Also, what is up with all computers _still_ having 1…

> what is up with all computers _still_ having 1 gbps ethernet ports?

See last week’s discussion on “A disquisition into the sadly slovenly takeup of 10GBASE-T” and note that the article was written TEN years ago.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30315790

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#109

Post by Melatonic »

wyager wrote: post #27
sschueller wrote: post #20

The reason this is available for this price in every house in the city of Zürich is because of a law that passed requiring every house to have fiber. The infrastructure is operated by the power and phone company and any service provider can use this fiber. I hope the whole of Switzerland will do something similar because there are still a lot of places without good internet and fiber is quite future proof. Home offic…

> fiber is quite future proof To give an example - OS2 single-mode fiber is the standard fiber for contemporary datacenter deployments and I assume also for last-mile deployments. It's super cheap (less than 20cpf for indoor cable, whereas cat7 copper is closer to 60cpf), has an insane range (a standard $25 fiber PHY can operate with a cable from 0m-10km), and has an insane bandwidth limit (it's currently used for ev…

If I were wiring a home I would probably run two OS2 cables (just so I do not have to deal with one breaking in the future) from one side of the house to the other and also a termination somewhere central. And then probably Cat7 everywhere else honestly. The cost of the actual cable does not seem to be really all that much comparative to other costs
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