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15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

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Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#101

Post by inflagranti »

baybal2 wrote: post #75
DarknessFalls wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of where the news was reported in the original post, the only thing of importance is whether or not it's true. Did you check some of the original sources? https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/extreme-suffering-15-23-... https://nypost.com/2022/02/10/elon-musks-neuralink-allegedly... This is worth looking into. First, it's using Tesla drivers as guinea pigs for automation. Then some strange experiments with…

You know that Musk Elon has a mental condition?

But he's also a middle-aged white guy, so surely that's a wash?

Hope that illustrated the silliness of this line of argument.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#102

Post by walrus01 »

sschueller wrote: post #99
cloutchaser wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 days ago Tesla Fremont was sued for being a racially segregated workplace. Like really, in 2022, in California. On very dubious grounds based on teslas blog post reply. These are opening shots in the musk vs woke war. We can’t have him standing up to warren and sanders, posting red pill memes and selfies with Jordan Peterson… Well good luck. I look forward to musk fighting them. He’s not your average corporate CEO…

Elon created his own little apartheid state, his dad must be proud.

Has anyone located the emerald mines in Fremont yet?

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#103

Post by inflagranti »

jeffparsons wrote: post #100
kkoncevicius wrote: post #72

A fitting quote: "The error in depicting critics of animal experiments as anti-science becomes clear when one begins to question the extent to which the purported scientific aims of these experiments are actually accomplished. For then it turns out that the experiments and not their critics are unscientific. Those experiments that cannot be justified on scientific grounds can be no more justified than the frivolous k…

One of their nearest-term practical goals is to find a way to help paralyzed people to move again. Figuring out how to take people from quadriplegic to walking around seems like worthwhile science to me. > [...] no more justified than the frivolous killing and torturing of animals. Maybe Neuralink is doing something unethical. But this kind of rant makes the whole accusation way too easy to dismiss as the work of a c…

You mean like this: https://www.trtworld.com/life/breakthrough-nerve-stimulation...

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#104

Post by ericd »

ashwagary wrote: post #97
ericd wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Some” electric cars? They made roughly 1 million of them this past year, 80% more than the previous year.

Wasn't most of the hard work done by the two actual founders of Tesla? They achieved something almost equivalent to the modern day Tesla before Elon contributed anything (funding excluded).

No. They hadn’t even gotten the hand-built roadster working properly before he took over (iirc the two speed transmission was still shredding itself before they switched to single speed), let alone launching the Model S, X, 3, Y, and then scaling up the manufacturing (the real hard part). Credit to them for the idea and the initial prototypes - the idea that EVs could not only be decent cars that people could stomach, but actually lustworthy sports cars that hold their own with the best ICE cars was key to their success, and it was the founders’. But the company building and keeping it alive was solidly Musk.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#105

Post by inawarminister »

faeyanpiraat wrote: post #53
pfdietz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The whole thing sounds wildly science fictional, much more so than something as a simple as a reusable launch vehicle.

I don’t think so. They are just implanting stuff into you. There are already working implants, like pacemakers, this is just more complicated. They have to figure out how to do it without causing too much side effects.

We have brain implants since 1997 too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_brain_stimulation

They're used to excite brain areas, with some success in granting euphoria to depressed patients, as detailed here:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/03/pleasure-...

Neuralink's main innovation is its aim in making the brain implant able to transmit information outward, for use in prosthetics, and yes, mind-to-machine input. The last is what he's going for, allowing us to bypass text-input/voice-input or gesture in favor of directly thinking them. We'll see how much of that aim is able to be done or not, with our current technology.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#106

Post by austinjp »

cloutchaser wrote: post #39
sdoering wrote: post #24

I can't even imagine how these experiments are passing an ethics committee. I had never heard of this experiment before, but this report is one of these moments, that make me question, if we took the wrong branch of reality. A billionaire torturing animals for a self gain goal disguised as scientific research sounds like a plot from a James Bond movie of my childhood. I just can't wrap my head around.

A billionaire who doesn’t give two shits about money and lives in a box, who is looking at technologies to make paraplegics be able to walk again or even communicate. For some reason your attitude is very sceptical for no reason. I imagine you want to dismantle capitalism too while you’re at it?

One reason work like neuralink can be unhelpful is that it can distract from other (often more promising) work. Medical experimental and academic work is (ideally) conducted in public at every stage, and is announced via peer-review. Privately developed work may also go through peer-review, but often makes heavy use of PR tactics like press conferences, puff pieces in popular media, snazzy videos, etc. Sure, the public sector can learn a lot from the private sector, but vice-versa is also true.

I'm well aware of the issues with academic processes and peer-review publication, but I'm also aware of the ongoing efforts to improve them, which gives me hope. Also, this painful evolution is happening in public too, as it should be.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#107

Post by hughrr »

xupybd wrote: post #55
Barrin92 wrote: post #30

"Neuralink chips were implanted by drilling holes into the monkeys’ skulls. One primate developed a bloody skin infection and had to be euthanized. Another was discovered missing fingers and toes, “possibly from self-mutilation or some other unspecified trauma,” and had to be put down. A third began uncontrollably vomiting shortly after surgery, and days later “appeared to collapse from exhaustion/fatigue.” An autops…

I don't think so. We hold a special place for humans only a small minority elevate any other animals to that special place. I don't see that changing over time. I could be wrong I just doubt we will move in that direction.

I think that's inverted. We don't have to elevate any other form of life or ecosystem to develop a social conscience or ethics. I don't see myself as lesser or greater, just part of it all.

As for things changing over time, that has already happened since the rise of ubiquitous communications. Social attitudes have changed drastically since the 1980s.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#108

Post by ksec »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #18

The article felt a bit flat. Surely there's no such thing as "oops, monkey died, let me just grab the next one off the shelf". There's no real reporting into the why or how, just uncritical repeating of the complaint that the neuralink research is dangerous / unethical. The reporting is so flimsy that one starts to look at the page and ask "wait, what site am I on anyway?" Hmm, I wonder what sort of bias a site calle…

>Well, that explains a bit.

I am thinking if I should flag the submission. Not for or against the idea, but the content was just poor.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#109

Post by inawarminister »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #31
ovi256 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that you'll learn that besides haters, nobody cares about the failures. Or hit rate. Only about the successes. And Elon's had such huge ones that he can keep trying for more.

What are his huge successes in your view?

Reusable rocket is a pretty huge game-changer. It is something that was quite already possible in earlier decades, but there was no appetite to do that because of economics (from '80s to 2010, Soviet Union fell and American Space sector was gutted into cost-plus pork barrel grant of jobs to various states).

SpaceX is the first success of NewSpace, and the revolutionary cost-saving of Falcon 9 seems to continue with Starship, which is 100% reusable, unlike F9.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#110

Post by Aterio »

Barrin92 wrote: post #30

"Neuralink chips were implanted by drilling holes into the monkeys’ skulls. One primate developed a bloody skin infection and had to be euthanized. Another was discovered missing fingers and toes, “possibly from self-mutilation or some other unspecified trauma,” and had to be put down. A third began uncontrollably vomiting shortly after surgery, and days later “appeared to collapse from exhaustion/fatigue.” An autops…

I have to tell you that while you see it as unethical, I don't.

I think this type of research might bring us a level forward for people who are blind or have parkinson's or other things and that this also might be the way for us humans to evolve further.

If the results of this type of research is fruitless, that will still be a discovery.

I do justify the experiments and death of those handful animals through the type of research, the goal of it and the importance.

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