Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution • Hacker News Board

Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution

#101

Post by Freak_NL » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

lucian1900 wrote: post #74

Freak_NL wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most messaging app users don't really care about encryption either. Most (or at least a large minority) probably wouldn't mind if their messages were used to 'deliver ads more suitable for you'. It doesn't mean these aren't important issues. Until Signal drops the phone number requirement (nothing beats that for efficient user tracking), allows desktop use without requiring a smartphone anywhere in the process, open…

The phone number requirement is the only thing making Signal remotely close to usable for the wider public. Similarly, non-phone messaging is niche in the extreme. Unusable software is not an ally of user freedom. The actual problem with Signal is that they took US State Department funding. That doesn't mean it's an op necessarily, but suspicious nonetheless.

Why? If someone wants to use a phone number for their identifier, fine. But make it optional. If I join Signal with another alias (free-form string perhaps) then they could just add me via that. Not really harder than using my phone number.

Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution

#102

Post by Tepix » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

nicce wrote: post #32

iqanq wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really comparing the feature set of facebook to that of signal? Or what a user is worth to a business vs. what the business spends on the user? Or what journalists report vs. reality?

Facebook (Meta) is still the biggest competitor. WhatsApp, Facebook and Instagram DMs.

WhatsApp is subsidized by Facebook.

Threema is a better comparison. They offer a commercial, ad-free product with E2E for a one-time fee of 3.99€ in the iOS app store. They also don't sell your address book or other data. They don't even have your phone number.

Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution

#103

Post by nanna » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

Important to remember that Brian Acton recently took over from Moxie as CEO of Signal, and he was pushing for a user-funded financial model back at WhatsApp. Signal has had a donation system for a while, but it wasnt exactly explicit and I imagine had a very low conversion rate.

I think it's fair enough that Acton would want some return to his $100 million(?) Loan to Signal. But I think more than that this is about creating a business model where users sustain Signal's development and maintenance, rather than Signal sustaining itself through ad tech, just as WhatsApp should have done.

In other words, Acton is creating the app WhatsApp should have been. And that's to be applauded

Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution

#104

Post by pessimizer » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 2:58 PM UTC

agentdrtran wrote: post #58

_wldu wrote: post #25

Is there a market for a secure messaging app (similar to Signal) that does not rely on personally identifying information (phone numbers and emails) or is that too fringe?

Matrix is probably the closet alternative but it's harder to use than Signal (lost your password? say goodbye to your messages!).

That's a feature. I don't want my account to be recoverable without my password.

Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution

#105

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #101

lucian1900 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phone number requirement is the only thing making Signal remotely close to usable for the wider public. Similarly, non-phone messaging is niche in the extreme. Unusable software is not an ally of user freedom. The actual problem with Signal is that they took US State Department funding. That doesn't mean it's an op necessarily, but suspicious nonetheless.

Why? If someone wants to use a phone number for their identifier, fine. But make it optional. If I join Signal with another alias (free-form string perhaps) then they could just add me via that. Not really harder than using my phone number.

> Why? If someone wants to use a phone number for their identifier, fine. But make it optional

Network effects.

If you’re only findable via custom handle versus the phone number your network already has, you’ve reduced the network’s value to your contacts. Put another way, if I join a messaging service and it says two of my contacts are on it (but many more may be), that’s close to a non-starter.

Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution

#106

Post by Tepix » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

tharne wrote: post #86

I always surprises me how few people are willing to pay $5 a month for a piece of software they use everyday, but will gladly spend $3 a day on a Starbucks Coffee or happily drop $8 on a single beer at bar.

For me it's the opposite.

Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution

#107

Post by NeutronStar » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

dfkajglag wrote: post #12

Reminder that Signal server source code is not fully released and the app is heavily dependent on google services to operate. Signal also takes measures against third party or unofficial apps. Whatever you say about privacy Signal is not an ally of user freedom.

No post body was provided.

Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution

#108

Post by UnpossibleJim » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 3:02 PM UTC

windexh8er wrote: post #93

Tepix wrote: post #5

I'd argue that $5/month is quite high. Not because Signal isn't useful, but because the actual incurred cost per user is much, much lower. Of course, not everyone is going to pay. But if Signal were to ask users to pay, say $10 per year , i'm sure there'd be a lot more payers.

For what it is and how it contributes to me daily I don't believe it's high. $5/month for the peace of mind Signal provides is something I can make a case for. I subscribe to the $10/month level - because everyone in my circle uses it, and I pushed many of them in that direction. I want it to succeed, I want it to continue to improve, I want it to be available. I know I spend more than $10/month on other things that…

How did you get your friends to switch?

I have tried and, dude, my group will just not change from their pre-installed messaging apps, except for 2 of them. They don't care that it's more secure (arguably) or that you can pull it up on your computer (my main reason for using it), they just have no interest.

Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution

#109

Post by 7steps2much » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 3:02 PM UTC

reacharavindh wrote: post #34

_wldu wrote: post #25

Is there a market for a secure messaging app (similar to Signal) that does not rely on personally identifying information (phone numbers and emails) or is that too fringe?

This is what I wish Signal was. A simple secure messenger that works with a username and not tied to an identity like phone number :-( Like HN...... Now that I'd happily pay for.

Have you had a look at Threema?

Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution

#110

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 3:02 PM UTC

julianwachholz wrote: post #91

baxtr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't have any insurances?

We pay most of these large bills once a year and as a thank you we get a 2% discount or alternatively they don't charge us extra for each month's bill.

I do wish more services permitted annual or multi-year billing.