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Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

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Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#101

Post by kube-system »

SnowProblem wrote: post #92
kube-system wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some states tried using positive feedback in the form of lotteries, prizes, or even just paying people to get the vaccine. I don't think those measures were very successful.

Don't forget the worst gimmick - Krispy Kreme donuts - when we know the vast majority of deaths are in the overweight. These are tricks for monkeys. And a reminder how little they think of you. You know what would have worked? Maybe a little honesty. Maybe treating people as adults and not constantly lying to them, from masks, to virus origin, natural immunity, vaccine risks, and especially treatments. People aren't…

The problem is that people think they've been lied to when they largely haven't. They've missed all of the nuance because they're looking for absolutes. Science is nuanced and politics is crude. None of those topics you list are dichotomic in nature, yet our political discussions nevertheless dilute them as such.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#102

Post by slg »

monkmartinez wrote: post #79

I can tell you as a first responder, it doesn't matter. The "vaccine" is a damn joke. I am F**ing exhausted this morning, and I don't care anymore. We are being run in the ground across the country with people quitting left and right. Fake vaccine cards are the least of our worries. You heard it here first. The emergency medical system is in deep trouble for way too many reasons to enumerate here. Anecdote time; I re…

>They were told they were getting a vaccine... their definition of vaccine doesn't include still getting the disease, but just a little less sever (which, incidentally has NOT been the case for a lot of them). That doesn't make sense to them or me if I am being honest.

Hasn't this always been the case with the flu shot which I imagine many if not most people in a retirement home have been getting for years?

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#103

Post by disambiguation »

If one of the goals of the vaccine passport is to partition the vaccinated from the unvaccinated (i.e i don't want to put my patrons at risk by allowing someone sick to enter my shop) then I suspect fraud is at the bottom of a long list of other more important issues that undermine said goal.

In order for vaccine passports to be effective, they need to be full-scale, uniform, and zero-tolerance. For ex. Australia does this high effect.

But in the U.S. every state, business, and household has a different set of rules and they've been making it up as they go. This has resulted in numerous non-fraud scenarios where the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups mingle, and supposedly exchange the virus. Ex. Grocery stores, schools, holiday dinners and parties

Our approach has been so federated that I can't imagine any meaningful improvements can be attributed to the passports. Inversely I can't imagine any real negative effects can be attributed to fraud.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#104

Post by kube-system »

pndy wrote: post #88
nonethewiser wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans don't want to use ID even for voting *many liberal Americans

Pretty sure the US doesn't have an official federal-issued ID, and most of the time driving license works as such. And it seems this applies to the majority of Anglosphere countries. Here in Poland we have a compulsory IDs, which for over 20 years now are plastic. Recently RFID tags and finger prints were added; there's also a standard biometric photo of face. All of this comes also with electronic and qualified elec…

Having a federal ID might make sense if you're voting in federal elections, but there are no direct federal elections in the US. People in the US vote in state elections, and the states then vote in the electoral college.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#105

Post by errcorrectcode »

monkmartinez wrote: post #83
cute_boi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If obese and alcohol user starts to fill up hospitals, spread diseases to other, causes trouble to other people, is recommended by public health officials I would say Yes. And I think obesity, alcohol are too different than current corona virus.

They are not different. I can assure you that we don't run many 911 calls on gym rats, runners, cyclists and hikers... unless they have injured themselves doing said activities. Drunk idiots and Obese people are the overwhelming majority of our calls.

Denying healthcare to those who don't take of themselves is a necessary evil to avoid the burden of freedumbs.

The obese also experience disproportionately more classic hits including diabetes, amputations, falls, strokes, heart attacks, and cancers.

Speaking of drunk idiots: from my vantage, I regularly see more than one rider piled on a Lime scooter in the middle of the street in nightclub traffic. Organ donors? Nawh. I think they're too selfish and stupid to opt-in. But big mommy and big daddy consequence-free, unlimited care will spare no expense to patch them back together (i.e., craniofacial trauma, TBI, ortho) if they hit a rock, pothole, curb, bump, or get run over.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#106

Post by mikestew »

soco wrote: post #41
mikestew wrote: post #33

The "public health nightmare" is that such a thing is so easily faked, on top of the fact that no one looks anyway. Has anyone ever seen a QR code being scanned? No? Just wave a screenshot of your friend's digital vaccination record? Yeah, that works. Why even bother with fake cardboard representations? Post that screenshot (with the QR code replaced by a rickroll URL) to your Telegram channel, sorted. But just now w…

In Switzerland and Italy I've had mine scanned pretty much everywhere I went. So I wouldn't generalize.

US-centric POV because US-centric article, from the sub-headline: "Thousands of fake vaccine card vendors threaten to gut the effectiveness of U.S. vaccine mandates"

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#107

Post by errcorrectcode »

TameAntelope wrote: post #49
torstenvl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Requiring vaccine passports or vaccine cards incentivizes people to get vaccine passports and/or vaccine cards , which is exactly what we're seeing. This is like counting lines of code or repo commits to see how productive a SWE is. If you want to incentivize X , you have to be very careful not to instead incentivize an imperfect proxy for X .

Yeah, and the easiest way, by far, to get a vaccine passport/card is to get vaccinated... Besides, people don't like to lie if they can avoid it. Being honest and getting a vaccine card by getting a vaccine is what most people will do. If it's 10-12% such as the YouGov poll suggests, that feels in line with "Who are the assholes in our society?" Most people aren't like that.

The problem is the cards lack security features and an electronic verification mechanism. They should've thought about fakes before rolling them out.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#108

Post by errcorrectcode »

listless wrote: post #6
hammock wrote: post #2

Is it really a public health nightmare? What data is there to show that vaccine passports are effective at reducing spread or hospitalizations?

What data is there to show that vaccines reduce the spread? Hospitalization, yes. Spread? Not anymore!

Unpopular observation: if an ebola-deadly, vaccine-effective variant comes along, it would hopefully wipe out enough of those who are too dumb to take care of themselves or impetuously refuse vaccines. Modern life and medicine is too safe to select for common sense or intelligence.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#109

Post by alamortsubite »

mikestew wrote: post #33

The "public health nightmare" is that such a thing is so easily faked, on top of the fact that no one looks anyway. Has anyone ever seen a QR code being scanned? No? Just wave a screenshot of your friend's digital vaccination record? Yeah, that works. Why even bother with fake cardboard representations? Post that screenshot (with the QR code replaced by a rickroll URL) to your Telegram channel, sorted. But just now w…

> Has anyone ever seen a QR code being scanned? No? Just wave a screenshot of your friend's digital vaccination record? Yeah, that works.

Sometimes. In my experience, it's just as likely your photo ID will be scrutinized and compared with the QR code. Which in your scenario does not work. The problem is there are rarely repercussions for the individual that presents the bogus documentation, or the entity that accepts them.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#110

Post by falcolas »

slg wrote: post #78
buscoquadnary wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I saw it the other way around, when it was first came out the future was uncertain, and there was a lot of confusion the only data we had was untrusted reports from China, I saw a lot of people band together, people looking out for on another general expressions of concern. There were politics involved but it was relatively mild, and ignored by many people it was about two or three months in when much of the…

I feel like I am taking crazy pills the way that many on HN constantly seem to imply that the polarization and politicization of the pandemic was caused by the media, scientists, public health officials or anyone else but the last president and many people in his administration. They were immediately trying to shift blame to anyone but themselves. It was the "China virus" from pretty much day 1. He was literally cros…

Imagine, for a moment, the change in reactions had Trump & company declared a "War on Covid".

We love wars. A vast majority of Americans have historically gotten behind wars. Wars on drugs. Wars on terror.

I dunno how things would have turned out, but it makes me wonder.

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