Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you're in favor of Facebook's policy on this? The article can still reach its intended audience (as you say, health professionals don't get their information from social media) and surely the BMJ will be more - not less - willing to publish controversial articles if they don't need to worry about them being used to mislead the public at large by being shared out of context.
Facebook can do what it likes - but it needs to be honest and say something like: - We think the BMJ is too complicated for you to properly understand. as opposed to - We had some group independently check and the BMJ is objectively wrong. The first one seems a little un-pc, so I would say that people sharing stuff online and a loud minority going off on some mad conspiracy is the [acceptable] cost of being open with…
Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong
101–110 of 307 posts
Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did Facebook really censor the lab leak idea? Last I checked, Facebook only censored the idea that the virus was manufactured, not that it merely leaked - and that theory is still fringe.
First of all, those warning significantly reduced user interaction. The chilling effect is nothing to write off, when we're talking about hundreds of millions of posts. Second, Facebook has removed, completely memory-holed, twenty million posts relating to Covid "misinformation" without any accountability. I can't find how many of those related to the lab leak theory (a significant fact itself), but I think it's pret…
https://mobile.twitter.com/paulg/status/1396769717805780994?...
Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you actually read that article? It's expecting a whole lot of detailed evidence from an article. And maybe they're right? Maybe the article should have provided more excruciating details. But the details it does provide - just from the bits quoted here - seem enough to justify a stance of "We need to do better than this", at least. It smacks of "Yes, some sloppy science was done here, but you can't prove it chan…
I've read the article, Facebook's "fact checker" page, the BMJ's response, and the fact checker's response, as well as the posted response from Science Based Medicine. None of it "smacks of" anything, the series of events is clearly laid out. A former Ventavia regional director provided internal company documents to Thacker that laid out potential flaws in clinical trials run by the company for Pfizer's vaccine candi…
> Thacker writes in the introduction, in which he claims that Ventavia unblinded patients, not that “inadvertent unblinding may have occurred”. There’s a huge difference between the two.
The definition of unblinding does not require someone to actually see it.
If a doctor fixes your eyesight, and you refuse to open your eyes afterwards, have you been unblinded?
https://www.noclor.nhs.uk/active-research/unblinding : "Unblinding, sometimes referred to as code-break, is the process by which the treatment/allocation details are made available either purposefully (i.e according to the code-break procedures) or accidently."
If this information was made available - whether or not that information can be proven to be accessed - then an unblinding has occurred.
So to say that they "unblinded" some patients is not wrong. And if the person who found this out should have been blind to the data, then an unblinding access definitely did occur.
And if you're saying that they should have been more precise about this because people in the audience might not be in healthcare and might not know the technical definitions, I'll refer you to the header on the BMJ website: "Intended for healthcare professionals"
> The framing Thacker went with is that the Pfizer vaccine's safety and efficacy are in question due to falsified trials.
That isn't antivax spin. That's just using the correct terminology.
And also, that isn't the framing he went with:
"Revelations of poor practices at a contract research company helping to carry out Pfizer’s pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial raise questions about data integrity and regulatory oversight."
In nice big letters.
Compare that to Gorski's framing:
"Last week, The BMJ published an “exposé” by Paul Thacker alleging patient unblinding, data falsification, and other wrongdoing by a company running three sites for the massive clinical trial of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine. It was a highly biased story embraced by antivaxxers, with a deceptively framed narrative and claims not placed into proper context, leading me to look into the broader question: What the heck happened to The BMJ?"
Exposé in quotation marks. "Embraced by antivaxxers" (not that he is claiming Thacker is one, of course, but blaming the article writer for the kind of people who reads it seems perverse at the least)
Then second paragraph of the introduction: "investigative journalist turned anti-GMO muckraking crank Paul Thacker"
Oof.
(Btw, I'm intentionally not looking Thacker up - don't care who he is or what ad-hominems actually contain truth. Seems like a fools game to me)
So given that, what was Gorski's problem with Thacker's framing?
"Notice the framing. Contrary to Bourla’s statement, the narrative goes, “several” (three, actually, as it turns out) sites in Texas run by Ventavia were supposedly flouting clinical trial safety"
Oh, and that he used the word "Whistleblower" to describe the whistleblower. And that can be misleading, because calling them that (aside from giving them all-important legal protection) might be considered positive in people's eyes.
Thacker using the word "several" which means "more than 3" is definitely wrong, unless he has evidence that the bad science is more widespread than just the three institutes he centers his report on.
And maybe there was a little sloppiness in the language, a little exaggeration in the effects or a little lack of detail in the way he amalgamated his data.
But it's still quite a long article that clearly shows "Ventavia is potentially an irresponsible steward of pharmaceutical trials and Pfizer needs to have greater level of oversight over such contractors".
Or, as Thacker _actually_ put it, poor practices at a contract research company helping to carry out Pfizer’s pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial raise questions about data integrity and regulatory oversight.
Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong
#104Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
> He must know this is wrong. It's entirely possible to be well educated and amoral, either via genuine inability to comprehend or simply not caring.
We know for a fact that FB leadership regularly discussed ripping off smaller companies business ideas (ie, Snapchat [0]. Not a sign of moral people. https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2017/08/17/theftovation-facebook-...
Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong
#106Quoted post unavailable.
I will never truly understand the infatuation with Hunter Biden. Oh, the son of a candidate to be president/the president is using their position for personal gain in a corrupt fashion? That's certainly not something that has been happening for the last half decade...
First family corruption isn't something of “the last half decade”, implying Trump. Its goes back way further and American don’t like, want it gone and whenever evidence of it appears they want heads to roll.
Second, if we’re comparing to the last half decade, then it stands to reason that prosecutors should be sicced on the first family as the Trump family was. Fair is fair, afterall.
_____________
If you accept that the laptop is not a fake (a point that was conceded by traditional media after the election), the laptop contains substantial evidence [1] of corruption and sale of access. Furthermore it contains evidence that the president knew about it and was the coordinator behind the scenes (including Hunter complaining that his dad was taking too large a cut).
Now, before we get too excited, I think what’s on the laptop is par for the course in DC for either party. Its just the Joe has the fortune [2] of having a particularly inept son.
[1] I use the word “evidence” on purpose, as opposed to the word “proof”, that is to say it contains pieces of evidence that has to be validated, contextualized, etc.
For example, are the ppl that have come forward claiming that a certain nickname refers to Joe Biden lying?
The laptop is real, this much is widely conceded, but were the material published on right wing media really on it, or are they a fabrication? Or are they cut outs out of context?
But, prima facie, it doesn’t look good.
[2] I originally wrote “misfortune”, but no child is unfortunate. I really didnt know how to write this sentence in a way that
A. Conveyed my belief that Joe’s son causes problems
B. Joe’s son is a blessing for Joe and his family
EDIT: grammer
Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong
#107The problem isn’t the content, but rather the audience, and how they react to said content.
People generally don’t read articles - particularly lengthy articles, particularly articles written by academia for academia - they read the headline, perhaps the lead, and then go post and spread their interpretation of the information.
The BMJ have a reputation as being a reputable source of information.
Take these two together, and you have a wavefront of posts claiming that the BMJ agrees that vaccines are dangerous and poorly tested, and the story isn’t what the article holds, it isn’t nuanced, it isn’t moderate, it’s “look, this proves that bill gates wants a microchip in you, and the BMJ confirms it!”.
So, you have a difficult choice. Do you allow a factual article and the reputation of the BMJ to be used as fodder for anti-vaxxer sentiment, or do you try to dampen the squib and decrease the propagation of the distorted interpretations?
If anything, there should perhaps be a middle road, where in order to share or comment on an article, you have to answer a series of questions about what the article says. This would dampen the network effect, and would hopefully ensure that people are actually forced to read the content they’re sharing, rather than relying on a headline and a strapline interpretation added by the sharer.
Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong
#108The entire idea of "fact checking" on social media is premised on the notion that fact checkers have some kind of superior epistemic merit compared to the checkees. When you're fact checking random people or journalists that may or may not be true, but why does Zucc think facebook's checkers are superior to the BMJ? What are the fact checker's credentials, and most importantly what is their track record? The extreme…
What really bugs me here is, everyone yells at facebook, saying it is spreading propaganda, lies, societal harm, etc. Then, fact checking is attempted, and people claim censorship, an imperfect job, and the idea that "How dare they!" I literally loath, hate, and despise facebook. But come on, they're only doing this because everyone piled on them, claiming they must fact check and validate things. If I was facebook,…
People need to adapt to not believing every stupid thing they read on the internet and actually thinking critically about things. The information streams of the world should not be tailored to the critical thinking ability of complete morons.
It blows my mind we went from "trying to censor cop killer is a bridge too far no matter the merits of doing so" to "you can't say things that compromise the interests of powerful individuals, offend the chronically sheltered, or that might confuse the braindead under any circumstances" just in my lifetime. Free speech seemed absolutely unassailable in my youth and has been completely destroyed relative to that in present day.
What the fuck happened?
Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong
#109The entire idea of "fact checking" on social media is premised on the notion that fact checkers have some kind of superior epistemic merit compared to the checkees. When you're fact checking random people or journalists that may or may not be true, but why does Zucc think facebook's checkers are superior to the BMJ? What are the fact checker's credentials, and most importantly what is their track record? The extreme…
This what gets me. Zuck is a well educated fella. He must know this is wrong. Why is this happening? Has he lost control of Facebook? Is he not interested?
Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that’s largely because omicron is less serious. I think the vaccine helped against past strains, and maybe a bit against omicron, but it was vastly oversold.
> I think that’s largely because omicron is less serious. You can think that as much as you like, but we have actual numbers on hospitalization/death in the two populations, and there's a clear, large difference even in the Omicron surge.