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Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

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Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#101

> Part of the reason it had taken so long is because I put a substantial amount of work into a part of the project that's no longer necessary due to changing requirements, which I don't think I could have forseen. One of the things that I've experienced with new grad junior devs is that there's an adjustment needed to change from academic working to business working. In academia, usually the professor gives an assign…

Thanks. I definitely will take that into consideration in the future. I'm not sure if it would have helped in this specific case but I can definitely think of other situations at work where taking your advice would have helped me.

Pushing back on changing requirements is also a good skill to pick up. Part of it is getting a really clear agreement on what you're actually doing - what's the real scope of work - and actively changing the agreed plan when requirements change. I also find it helpful to highlight that changing requirements will have a cost in time, etc.

There's also a an art to getting together a good MVP efficiently. You can treat lots of added requirements as shiny feature requests, and prioritize them below getting the MVP working. Having an MVP that people can try out and see it working at all goes a long way towards building belief in your work. At the same time, you want to build flexibly enough that the MVP can expand rationally to take on those added feature requests... without writing in SO MUCH generality that nothing ever gets done. Doing this well is a skill learned on the back of many failures and tedious refactors... But efficiently getting a demo+MVP is golden, even if you build up some tech debt to get it.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#102

>but it seriously bums me out Talk to your manager. If you don't have 1:1s, ask to have routine meetings. If your manager can't help you, alleviate your stress, or guide you forward, look for a new job. It's hard to really say anecdotally if things were fair or unfair, but your manager's job is to help you (and selfishly, for you, they should help you grow in your career).

Yes, you should be able to tell your direct manager basically what you told us. Copy and paste into an email if that’s easier. (Your tone here is fine.)

It does sound like your manager’s manager has poor people skills / favors a more confrontational management style. If you have a good direct manager that can be tolerable, up to you to decide how much it bothers you.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#103
post #35
post #7

This boss telling you that they felt the project should have been done a long time ago: I wonder who that comment benefits? Feels like no one. You get bummed, they give late feedback without a lot of constructive aspects to it. I am trying to think of one way it was useful to tell you that, but I can’t. Seems like you should feel justified in not being a fan of working under this person. What you do with that is hard…

I agree with this sentiment. And in fact, I’ll take it further: I’m not sure any “you should have” phrase is ever beneficial UNLESS it’s in the context of giving guidance about the future. And even then, it’s better to phrase it as “next time, I would suggest…” This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. “You should have” phrases are often used to berate or make the recipient feel bad while acting as a vent fo…

The only counterexample I can think of is the present tense.

For example: You have kids, you should have life insurance.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#104

Shrug it off and keep your head down. Keep on producing good work. Your manager should of deflected this sort of stuff and you are a junior developer. The responsibility doesn't really fall on you. Take some notes about what you can do better on future projects and try and improve. Rinse and repeat. Gj on delivering.

Be slightly wary of taking advice from people that use 'of', instead of 'have'.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#105
The problem is that your manager was not there; you were interacting with the wrong level!

The issues with the project that you were chewed out for were actually issues between the boss and your manager.

I'm guessing that planning of this task went on between your boss and your manager. Your manager made some promises about delivery that were unrealistic. Possibly, there had been an earlier (totally unrealistic) deadline for the project that you don't even know about that your manager initially promised, and that the boss still has engraved in his mind as something that should have been stuck to.

Your manager possibly bailed out of this meeting on purpose, using the fire fighting as an excuse, to expose you to the proverbial shit she has to deal with at the management level.

> I have no clue what happened in that meeting and I haven't heard anything about it from either of them since.

But you can probably guess. The boss likely reiterated all the same stuff, and your manager realized that you heard all of it, and that it was unfair, since some of the problems were her fault: everything from the code suggestions that you followed, to unrealistic promises that didn't even have anything to do with you.

Maybe your manager didn't do anything on purpose, but as a general rule, never discount that. It happens that managers will take credit for everything that goes right, and use the people under them as scapegoats to blame when things don't go right. Plus do other things like make adjustments to information they think you don't know. They might promise to the higher boss that something get done by end of December, but tell you that the deadline is end of November. That sort of thing.

For that reason, it would behoove you to establish rapport with your manager's manager. Do not allow your manager to be an entirely opaque proxy between you and the rest of the organization, and your only source of information.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#106
post #6

I would say something like: Wow, actually that feedback is quite surprising to me. I’ve been working hard on the project, and all the feedback I’ve gotten until now is that it was coming along nicely. A lot of the design decisions you pointed out were direct suggestions from (manager) and I thought I was doing a good job by implementing them thoroughly. Maybe we should have this meeting again with all of us in the ro…

I'd change that last sentence to "I will work with my manager to address these issues right away." The meeting with the three of them should have never happened. The direct manager should have been raising these issues along the way. It doesn't help that it sounds like the direct manager is a weasel. Couldn't attend the meeting because of putting out fires? Please.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#107
Sounds like a bad mentor. You may need to cut your losses. It's possible your interpretation of your progress is not accurate compared to expectations, but that does not mean anyone should interact with you the way you are suggesting your dude did. Software development is hard and a good boss will understand that and help you grow, not belittle you.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#108
While maybe your boss could've used some more empathy, there are many good learnings here that I struggle myself with:

- communicate your progress more often. The status of the project should never be a surprise, especially when things are not going perfectly well. Write it down, send slack updates, be proactive in communication.

- being proactive includes asking for feedback and for help when needed.

- avoid doing with the goal of being praised. You know when you're doing well, you know when you're learning. That's all that matters really. Especially in your first job. Your goal should be self-reliance.

- avoid attaching your sense of self worth to the code you write. You'll write great and shit code. That doesn't reflect on who you are. You'll be horrified at the code you wrote 2 years ago, but you will also be proud of how far you got.

- you are good enough

Take it easy my friend. If the goal of mountain climbing was to get to the top then people would summit the Everest on a helicopter. Enjoy every step of the ascent instead. Slow down and enjoy the view sometimes.

And fuck your boss.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#109
Time to start looking for the next gig. That boss is unsuitable for management. Lacking emotional intelligence, willingness to mentor, and so forth.

I've never successfully managed upwards, never have been able to turn situations like yours around. I've had jobs that I really liked, so tried really hard to make things work.

It was never worthwhile. I always regretted the effort.

The good bosses I've had made all the difference. And why I happily stayed in gigs, despite other offers, despite red hot job markets, despite more interesting work.

Life's too short. Don't stress the losers any longer than it takes to get away.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#110

A few takeaways from an old-timer here: > First, he basically tells me this project should have been finished a long time ago and he can't believe it's taken this long etc. I had no idea that he felt this way before the meeting - I've mostly just been working to get it done before the revised deadline my manager gave me. You need to communicate, build relationships, and get feedback from many people in the organizati…

> Do not put work into things that may or may not be needed.

Hindsight is 20/20.

> You need to communicate, build relationships, and get feedback from many people in the organization. One of those people is your manager's manager.

This is valid advice, but the manager/colleague/etc's feedback has to be useful. In that regard, OP's manager's manager failed.

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