How to quit like a boss • Hacker News Board

Re: How to quit like a boss

#101

Post by jamesbrady » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:24 AM UTC

oramit wrote: post #65

This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…

To be honest I think we agree about more than you make it seem!

What you did at your last job sounds exactly right to me – you were giving good feedback about what you needed, and when it wasn't heeded you left. Your manager didn't (or wasn't able to) hold up their side of that conversation and you moved to the "you should have left anyway" box. Doesn't sound fun, but we're in agreement on the steps there.

The 10 months thing seems to have tripped a few people up… I might try to rephrase that? Note that the section is titled "Avoid giving too much notice" and lists the reasons that 10 months was way too long. The advice is to match the notice period to the handover period, along with giving your manager ongoing feedback (as you did) if you're heading in this direction. Interestingly, one other commenter did a 12 (!) month notice period and it seemed to work in that situation.

Maybe that is where we've crossed wires on your last point too? I'm specifically not advocating for super-long notice periods, but as a hiring manager I would always respect a candidate who wanted to do e.g. 6 weeks instead of 2 if there was a good reason. For more senior roles, two weeks is not standard, nor is it internationally.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#102

Post by perrygeo » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:26 AM UTC

Ten months notice - Wow, that is WAY too much. If anything that's a strong indication that you or your company failed completely at your duties _prior_ to your resignation. A "professional" would never let themselves or their company be in such a position of utter dependence in the first place. Two weeks notice should always be sufficient for both parties.

FWIW I gave 5 weeks notice at a job a decade ago and immediately regretted it - the last few weeks were beyond awkward as I'd already wrapped up all my projects, spoken to all my colleagues and clients, etc. I was waiting for the job to end but kept getting roped into last minute projects that I could not in good faith contribute to because I was, admittedly, just sitting around waiting for it to be over. Everyone lost.

2 weeks max is optimal and expected for everyone. If you're feeling pressured to give more time to the company after resigning, say no and stick firm to 2 weeks. If they've got actionable work and you're able (i.e. not exclusively employed immediately thereafter), give them the option to hire you as a contractor. If the work is actually valuable, they should have no problem cutting you a check to complete it as a consultant. If not, well they're lying to you and stringing you along to extract any value they can - and you should leave in two weeks if not sooner.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#103

Post by avidiax » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:30 AM UTC

delgaudm wrote: post #76

oramit wrote: post #65

This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…

Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway). And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they w…

There are people that will dismiss this as overly cynical because of the presentation.

But it is true.

In a big company, the VP of whatever department may feel bad about a layoff before Christmas, but they don't know you personally, and whatever numbers or major investors are motivating this don't lie.

In a small company, the same is true. They might wait until things are hopeless instead of trending to hopeless, but either way, they'll lay you off when it makes sense for them.

You might like your boss, but informing them well in advance of a departure is generally not a good move. Nice as they may be, they can't unknow that knowledge, and it will affect all their decisions going forward. And you, who are so sure you are leaving, may find that your outside offer is rescinded the week before Christmas (see above).

2 weeks is a reasonable courtesy and an acceptable risk. If your company needs you beyond that, contract billing should start at 5x your salaried rate, 20 hour minimum.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#104

Post by p1esk » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:35 AM UTC

froaway4job wrote: post #80

I think it's really cool that this particular employee had a great quitting experience. However, this is the worst advice I have ever read. Good experiences should not be translated into advice. Your employer is not your friend. You may be lucky enough to have friends who share the same employer, but at the end of the day you are employed by a business, treat it accordingly. Here's how I handle quitting in a remote w…

start my new job the same day I give notice

This is bad advice. Most contracts in US explicitly prohibit this, so you could land in legal troubles if either company ever found out.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#105

Post by TedShiller » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:36 AM UTC

It may sound like semantics, but I've found it useful to think of "quitting" as actually "firing your boss". That is often the real reason people quit.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#106

Post by froaway4job » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:45 AM UTC

p1esk wrote: post #104

froaway4job wrote: post #80

I think it's really cool that this particular employee had a great quitting experience. However, this is the worst advice I have ever read. Good experiences should not be translated into advice. Your employer is not your friend. You may be lucky enough to have friends who share the same employer, but at the end of the day you are employed by a business, treat it accordingly. Here's how I handle quitting in a remote w…

start my new job the same day I give notice This is bad advice. Most contracts in US explicitly prohibit this, so you could land in legal troubles if either company ever found out.

It's not advice. It's just what I do.

I've never had a contract that explicitly stated I couldn't work multiple jobs. (I work multiple full time jobs now)

Re: How to quit like a boss

#107

Post by Nursie » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:48 AM UTC

ubermonkey wrote: post #8

That's an insanely pollyanna take on quitting. What's the worst that could happen? You could get fired for looking for another job. This happens. Most people I know have worked for someone toxic, or worked for a toxic organization. If you work for nice people and things just don't align, yeah, sure, this approach may be fine, but it's by no means universal.

Yeh that was my thought, I only got as far as that flow chart. It's missing a path from "your manager hears you out" to "you get fired because they've decided it's better for them if you go now".

And while that may be better in the long term, it's not so good if you want to keep earning while you find your next move.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#108

Post by MathCodeLove » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:50 AM UTC

delgaudm wrote: post #76

oramit wrote: post #65

This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…

Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway). And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they w…

To preface my comment, I totally agree with your take away. Prioritize your own success above any other company, organization, or individuals success.

However, I can't help but feel you're painting with an overly broad brush. There absolutely are CEO's out there who would lie awake at night after laying people off a week before Christmas. Does that mean they wouldn't do it? No. They, like all of us, will ultimately make the decisions they need to make to succeed.

It may be comforting for you to imagine that everyone in a position of power over you is some evil super-villain devoid of empathy or emotion, but that isn't always the case. Things aren't that black and white.

Again I agree with your general sentiment. Be greedy and ruthless in your career. Don't make decisions that benefit your employer to your own detriment. Look out for yourself. 100%. I'm just not a fan of absolute statements like yours and wanted to add that businesses are ran by people too, and while some may be complete sociopaths, not all of them are.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#109

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:51 AM UTC

delgaudm wrote: post #76

oramit wrote: post #65

This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…

Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway). And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they w…

[deleted]

Re: How to quit like a boss

#110

Post by Nursie » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:52 AM UTC

orangesite wrote: post #94

Having spent more time working in toxic environments than non-toxic ones I really appreciate this perspective on managing the difficult decision to exit. As many commenters have pointed out: When there are no professional relationships you want to preserve for the years (decades!) to come the matter is easily handled with a two week notice and a swift departure before the morning light. However, when you have been fo…

I don't understand this at all.

I've worked with great people a lot. When I make a move they understand that it's best for me. I understand it's best for them. One of the reasons they're great is that they document their work and share knowledge, so if someone leaves the rest of the team can pick up where they left off.

Yes, the company then has the hassle of hiring, but companies need to factor that in and get to it.

It seems almost childish that anyone would take such a move personally.