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Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

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101–110 of 383 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#101

I've recently been travelling to some fam in Europe and the entire COVID experience is so convoluted and obscene I feel a moral obligation to defraud the private services profiting off of it.

Quoted post unavailable.

I think the test requirements are a scam. The most dangerous thing I did on my trip last week to the UK was have to wait on line in a stuffy crowded room for over an hour to take my post-landing PCR test.

It would have been safer for people to take a rapid test outdoors.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#102
post #22

Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…

> Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing.

This is an intensely user hostile view point, ironically enough. "The dark patterns being foisted upon the average user are their own fault, they deserve what they get"

In fact, I think this attitude is how the developers and product managers responsible for this stuff sleep at night, "these people deserve this for their moral failings, so what I'm doing doesn't make me a terrible person"

How would my mom switch from her crappy bank app? That app that the bank is kind of forcing her to use by making the in person experience so terrible and, well, because of COVID. There is only one bank in her town, I guess she could start driving "to the city" for banking but, surprise, all those banks have equally shitty apps.

She could switch from Facebook to ... what exactly? Her extended family are all on Facebook, her grandkids are posting pics of the great grandkids on Facebook. Yeah, she deserves the disaster that is Facebook.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#103
post #22

Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…

> Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. While technically true in terms of theoretical modelling of a market economy, I don't think that's a fair diagnosis in practice. We…

> normal users have no choice on the matter.

The choice to not use shit software is easier than going on a strike and demanding 8h work day instead of 14h. Which our ancestors also did, some died for the cause.

I for one, do not use and have not used and especially not payed for user-hostile software, beginning since 2000.

It is possible, you dont really have to accept shit or keep on using shit. Everytime that click feels wrong, that idea seems off, dont click it, close that software suite and uninstall.

You do not have to accept that License.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#104

I'll suggest over reliance on dependencies on the frontend. The thing about a dependency frontend module, is that it often brings in some really cool stuff, like animations and attractive design elements, but also introduces inflexibility. You have to use the supplied design elements, and you can't modify the animations. This gets compounded, when you aggregate dependencies. Dependencies aren't bad. They are how we g…

We used to present our designer with a particular webshop, when he asked what sites we frequently used and enjoyed. That site had made one change to their layout in 12 years, they added round corners. That site was easy to navigate, everything was a simple as you can imaging, no weird icons, just text that said: "In stock/out of stock". The thing is, the site looked old, and dated, so everything good was dismissed al…

Part of consistency, is being consistent with current standards. That generally means working on the code to keep it looking current.

But custom problems require custom solutions (for example, a Web shop for a customizable widget, that maybe also needs to have restrictions imposed by industry licensing standards), and that can be difficult to do, with standard stuff (I have had to do almost exactly that, and have the scars to prove it).

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I think the test requirements are a scam. The most dangerous thing I did on my trip last week to the UK was have to wait on line in a stuffy crowded room for over an hour to take my post-landing PCR test. It would have been safer for people to take a rapid test outdoors.

Most people aren't good with logistics. This procedure might have been called a "well it's better than nothing" solution, because of the logistics, instead of it being a scam. Just saying.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#106
post #98

If you ask me it's due to a confluence of: - People like and expect stuff on the internet to be free; - The companies who produce this stuff have shareholders who want to see their squiggly lines go up. Honourable mention: Because cybersecurity is hard and involves saving users from themselves. That's my oversimplified take, anyways.

Also when phones started becoming able to work with the Internet in the 00's, cell phone companies (namely Qualcomm) did not repeat the same mistakes IBM made in the early 80's that gave consumers an open, standardized computing platform.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#107

I agree with most everything you have said but wonder if it is just the internet or everywhere these days. I recently went through a McDonalds drive thru for the first time in a very long time and felt a longing for the old menu boards that had items and prices clearly listed instead of these TV screens with all the items and prices scattered about like a teenage girls dream collage. I walked into a new BestBuy store…

>The busses no longer accept cash in my city, you need to buy a prepaid card from a transit hub or from one of their partner retailers. So I need to get a ride to the store to get a bus pass?!? Damn, I hate this too

For some time this was the case in Sydney. Now you can tap on and off with any credit/debit card. Very convenient. Maybe worthwhile checking with you transport provider

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#108
There are a lot of ways of defining each of these, and the number of hands-in-agreement will probably depend on the minutiae of each definition.

FWIW, I think your last point is the most relevant. It's hard to delve into this sort of thing without stepping into decades/centuries old rhetorical cliches but... let's anyway.

Industries, companies, markets and such go through eras. In the early 1920s, auto manufacturing was on a tear. 20th century factory efficiencies had matured, with prices dropping meaningfully every year. The market had matured. People learned to drive. Mechanics existed. Financing existed. Roads developed. Everyone wanted a car, but not everyone had one yet.

Possibly not without coincidence, the start of the great depression coincided with the end of this era. In this and later eras, everything was different. Margins were lower. Prices stopped dropping. Cars-as-fashion. Planned obsolescence, either mechanical or fashionable existed. International expansions became important. Etc.

Not everything about auto-manufacturing post 1927 was bad. But, a great many wonderful aspects of the youthful era were gone. "Consumer friendliness" is, perhaps, one of them.

TLDR, We probably wouldn't be wondering these things about pfizer, citibank or the Walgreens Boots Alliance.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#109
post #57

I agree with most everything you have said but wonder if it is just the internet or everywhere these days. I recently went through a McDonalds drive thru for the first time in a very long time and felt a longing for the old menu boards that had items and prices clearly listed instead of these TV screens with all the items and prices scattered about like a teenage girls dream collage. I walked into a new BestBuy store…

> was unable to have a meaningful conversation as they felt whatever was on their phones was more interesting I hate that. If you're expecting something important - fine, take a quick glance to check, if it vibrates. But don't start scrolling while I'm trying to have a conversation with you. Put it down for 20 minutes, you'll be ok - it will still be on there. > The world got itself in a damn hurry and it seems there…

For many this has become a habit. Sometimes it is worth raising it as an issue Ind the particular situation.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#110
post #22

Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…

> Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. This is an intensely user hostile view point, ironically enough. "The dark patterns being foisted upon the average user are their own fault, they deserve what they get" In fact, I think this attitude is how the developers and product managers responsible for this stuff sleep at night, "these people deserve this for their moral failing…

Ironically the "my mom" and "but my grandparents" angle is what has always been used to dumb down and introduce user-hostile patterns.

Surprise, after 20 years the developers and managers assume they are building software for retarded un-learnable "grandparents and mothers", the end result is well stupid software.

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