Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in • Hacker News Board

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#101

Post by bluGill » Sat, Jan 01, 2022, 1:00 PM UTC

have_faith wrote: post #92

bedobi wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making cars electric doesn't solve any of the problems with cars though. Cars, no matter the technology, are the problem. I'd much rather get rid of more or less all cars, permanently, period.

Cars create opportunities for working class people that wouldn't exist otherwise. You're advocating for removing mid to long range personal transportation entirely? what's the basis for this? I'm all for city neighbourhoods being less car centric.

Sure, but they are still deadly. Self driving isn't ready yet despite the low bar of needing to be better than humans

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#102

Post by brigandish » Sat, Jan 01, 2022, 1:00 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #39

makotobestgirl wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The biggest issues are crowding and racism That's surprising to hear. I have lived in Tokyo a fair amount of time (5+ years) and only experienced true racism, e.g. being not being allowed in a place for being non-Japanese, a handful of times, and those were mostly for what would be considered nighttime establishment that are a bit shady. Not doubting your experience, just putting this here as another data point. Mo…

Do snack bars in any Japanese town/city allow foreigners? I mean, I get it, these aren’t places foreigners should be going, but their forbidden nature always raises eyebrows.

> I mean, I get it, these aren’t places foreigners should be going, but their forbidden nature always raises eyebrows.

Snack bars aren't anything forbidden or erotic, they're bars where women are employed to speak to the customers and entertain them (again, not in an erotic way), that's it. I live in a suburb with lots of them around, it's not some kind of red light district filled with brothels, they're just bars I pass that usually have badly sung karaoke blasting out.

I also don't understand the replies you're getting as they seem to have run with this misconception, I can't be sure these people have even visited Japan!

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#103

Post by _8j50 » Sat, Jan 01, 2022, 1:03 PM UTC

danielrpa wrote: post #85

ekianjo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't really have real cities in the US = there are a few exceptions but most of the time it's just a very tiny center and a lot of people living away from the center. That's not what a traditional city looks like.

Why does the US need to have traditional cities? I grew up in a high density city overseas and I can see the appeal of both types of city. I personally prefer low density, car centric cities (obviously we need to finish solving the emissions problem from cars, but that's separate).

It means you are dependent on cars for one, which also means insurance companies, gas,car payment, etc... I am actively trying to ditch cars in a car city because of this. You wastr so much space for parking lots too. You interact with a lot less people because you are always at some destination with the journey barring you from interacting with the people of the city. Physical fitness and health is also affected.

It is ridiculous. In order to have food and shelter you need to be dependent on not just a landlord and grocery store but also insurance companies, car dealers, oil and gas companies, DMV/DPS,mechanics,etc... and infractions against driving law can leave you unable to work, get food, go to the doctor (outside of ER),etc... a traditional city does not require a regulated license for teansporation and you don't spend almost as much as rent on transportation. Especially for low-income people, liquidity is important, it is the reason behind why it is expensive to be poor. Think if all the tragic social cost that can be avoided if people can instead spend money on their other needs instead of cars.

I read somewhere how car makers bribed and played dirty to prevent things like rail cars from being adopted by cities. To me it relfects on how much corporate-run the city is.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#104

Post by brigandish » Sat, Jan 01, 2022, 1:05 PM UTC

bedobi wrote: post #77

ehnto wrote: post #65

> Tokyo comes joint fourth, but its population is larger than the combined populations of the others (Adelaide, Auckland, Osaka and Wellington). Having lived in Adelaide and visited Toyko, Osaka and a bunch of other Japanese cities, I can take a crack at the difference: Adelaide is a great lifestyle city, if you don't actually want to live in a city, love car enabled lifestyles and the outdoors. Tokyo would be great…

I honestly don't understand how "cities" like Adelaide, Auckland and Wellington keep making these lists of "most liveable cities". Their low populations mean they just don't have much of the things that make cities desirable. (like, lots of culture, lots of diversity, lots of options for dining and activities etc etc) Granted, that can make them comparatively pleasant and peaceful, with good access to outdoors and fr…

I live in Osaka and I have no idea whatsoever how it made second on this list. I like things about Osaka, some a lot (though I do complain), and the people I've met here will always be in my heart, but second? I couldn't be sure it's even the second best city in Kansai.

Worthless list.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#105

Post by freddie_mercury » Sat, Jan 01, 2022, 1:11 PM UTC

bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

I live in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, and while it has many issues the general "not designed around cars" makes everything feel much more human scale which is something I miss when I visit the US.

Unfortunately, cars are a status symbol and becoming increasingly prevalent, which then puts pressure on government officials to design around them. It doesn't help that government officials all have cars and clearly see cars as superior and a sign of being a rich country.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#106

Post by throwaway2037 » Sat, Jan 01, 2022, 1:11 PM UTC

franciscop wrote: post #70

bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

I also live there and one interesting bit that, in retrospective is OBVIOUS, is that there are also no cars parked on the streets! Like, if you look at pictures or walk down the street it feels so pleasant for some reason but difficult to put your finger at it, until you realize there's no huge cars piling on the sides. I prefer European Architecture for downtown buildings, but the no cars bit generally overpowers th…

Interestingly, this also greatly improves visibility for all forms of road locomotion: walk, bike, (push/electric/motor) scooter, car, truck. That said, there is also something zen about urban drivers in Tokyo. They are unusually patient and careful. I have never seen anything like it in other countries.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#107

Post by tluyben2 » Sat, Jan 01, 2022, 1:11 PM UTC

I generally do not like cities, at least not to live in, but I really liked HK, Shanghai, Phnom Penh, Chiang Mai and Bangkok. Tokyo and Melbourne are often mentioned as the greatest and I spent months in both; it really depends what you want, situation you are in, what period in your life etc. I though Melbourne was dead; after midnight the city is just a graveyard. And so was Tokyo. I like cities that are alive: in HK , Shanghai and Bangkok you can do whatever 24/7. It is lively. If I wake up at 3 am craving something or wanting to see a band, chat with someone, I can walk outside and get all of that in many places (not so sure about Shanghai now: that was the longest time ago since I worked there, well in Suzhou, but went to Shanghai all the off time). Even small towns in Asia have that but a mega city like Tokyo was dead; the apartment we were in was in a popular district and friends invited us to craft beer things and such; they shut down at 11pm. In my village (with 100 people) bars are open until 3 am or until the last guest leaves (often after 9 am).

It really all depends what you want from a city. As I do not have or want kids, and I work 12 hours a day (by choice!), when I finish, I don't want to hear kitchen is closed etc. No clue why I would pay the money to live in a city then (and I don't as there are no real 24/7 cities that I like in the EU; Berlin but too cold; for the atmosphere I would live there though).

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#108

Post by 88840-8855 » Sat, Jan 01, 2022, 1:13 PM UTC

ipiz0618 wrote: post #51

Tokyo, and most big Japan cities, are probably the only cities I could visit regularly without getting bored. Whether it's cuisine, the shops, or the people, it felt like a home away from home. It's surely super crowded in some areas, but you don't have to go there either. There are plenty of areas where you could enjoy a quiet (literally) afternoon sipping a good coffee without having to queue up. Also, it's so damn…

That's the thing. It's a super great place when you are a tourist.

I lived there and I saw the bad sides, too. To keep this amazing tidyness, order, extremely high quality of service, people go to their limits - with low pay and low perspectives. We have these "bad" jobs also here, people in those jobs are half-assing them, are rude or just quit. In Japan, at least from my experience, it's the conservative conformity, the anti-individualism, the meat grinding discipline that keep people doing bad jobs at high pace and quality.

It's paradox to me why many individualism loving Westerner are going to Japan and are loving it so much. It's a hell for many many people.

Many Japanese are racist, sexist, pedophilia was normalized for a very long time. Women are supposed to be housewifes in middle class families, gender is clearly defined.

All this is clearly against the western values that i often hear quoted when I hear the same people talking about "China". But Japan seems to be ok for them.

Paradox.

Just wished people would start thinking about their attitude towards other nations and would develop norms and values that they apply without bias to everyone in order to avoid double standards.

Overall, i enjoyed the positive racism in Japan, i was special and I felt it. I experienced racism, too, but i just ignored it. Working in Japan was bad. I also worked in China and felt that the overall package of racism/work/life/society was better for me.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#109

Post by bluepizza » Sat, Jan 01, 2022, 1:15 PM UTC

cameronh90 wrote: post #49

makotobestgirl wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The biggest issues are crowding and racism That's surprising to hear. I have lived in Tokyo a fair amount of time (5+ years) and only experienced true racism, e.g. being not being allowed in a place for being non-Japanese, a handful of times, and those were mostly for what would be considered nighttime establishment that are a bit shady. Not doubting your experience, just putting this here as another data point. Mo…

Maybe it's just me but racism on the level of being kicked out of places for being non-Japanese a handful of times in 5 years sounds terrible. Even once is insane. I'm white so don't have any personal experience, but my partner is a brown immigrant to the UK and has experienced nothing even remotely close to that anywhere she's been in UK or Europe.

If those places were kicking him out, it’s probably because they were very shady. Criminal gangs hangouts, scammer hangouts, sex worker meetup places.

There is your occasional nutjob small business owner that also kicks foreigners out, but that’s actually quite rare.

But this is the racism that Western people suffer. Chinese people, especially mainlanders, are targetted quite badly.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#110

Post by mdp2021 » Sat, Jan 01, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

eyelidlessness wrote: post #61

eyelidlessness wrote: post #53

Gee, fuck all these other cities that are all obviously shitholes? I guess?

I’m gonna laugh my way into the new year with downvotes because I dared to think my city is also pleasant to live in and say so.

You seem to (inexplicably) entail from «Tokyo [is a] big city that is also pleasant to live in» a number of assumed ideas and unduly conclusions.

TFA:

> [...] Tokyo is now the world’s largest city, with 37m residents in the metropolitan area and 14m in the city proper. It is also one of the world’s most liveable, with punctual public transport, safe neighbourhoods, clean streets and more restaurants and Michelin stars than any other. In the liveability index of the Economist Intelligence Unit, our sister group, Tokyo comes joint fourth, but its population is larger than the combined populations of the others (Adelaide, Auckland, Osaka and Wellington). “It’s possible to have a liveable city at any scale - Tokyo proves that,” says Gabriel Metcalf, at Committee for Sydney, an Australian think-tank. // It offers lessons to developing cities elsewhere. In 1950, 30% of the world’s population was urban; by 2050, 68% will be [...]