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DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

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Re: DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

#101

Post by bawolff »

saltyfamiliar wrote: post #19
neom wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got into a very long debate with an openai person 4/5 years ago about this + adversarial learning + access to a quantum computer (think just straight up world class abacus) was close to the primitives required for more generalized AI. They didn't agree with me, but that's ok! :)

Does anyone know if we understand enough about natural, generally intelligent brains to dismiss the idea that they are using quantum phenomenon for computation? Is it unlikely for any reason?

Even if they were (big if without really any evidence), we have no idea how, so adding a quantum computer to the mix won't get us any closer to general AI.

It would be like adding a classical computer we don't know how to turn on; it won't help anything if we don't know how to use it.

Re: DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

#102

Post by moffkalast »

sbierwagen wrote: post #21
whazor wrote: post #15

Very interesting. GPT-J is an opensource free alternative to GPT-3 and requires at least 12.1GB memory to run the model (which is reduced from original 48GB ram). But if the model stores some kind of index and does internet searches (or hard drive) instead, then it could scale much further as there is a limit on how much memory you can use in production.

>48GB ram 48GB VRAM? 48+ gigabytes of system ram is cheap, 48 gigabytes of ram on a GPU is still painfully expensive.

Yes, in this GPU market that's essentially a new car's worth of cash.

Re: DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

#103

Post by jowday »

saltyfamiliar wrote: post #19
neom wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got into a very long debate with an openai person 4/5 years ago about this + adversarial learning + access to a quantum computer (think just straight up world class abacus) was close to the primitives required for more generalized AI. They didn't agree with me, but that's ok! :)

Does anyone know if we understand enough about natural, generally intelligent brains to dismiss the idea that they are using quantum phenomenon for computation? Is it unlikely for any reason?

Someone asked this question to Leonard Susskind once at a Q&A and he said the chances are basically zero. When the guy kept pressing on the idea Susskind got kind of exasperated and seemed like he was on the verge of calling the idea woo.

Re: DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

#104

Post by HPsquared »

visarga wrote: post #91
saltyfamiliar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know if we understand enough about natural, generally intelligent brains to dismiss the idea that they are using quantum phenomenon for computation? Is it unlikely for any reason?

Not necessary. Quantum AI is basically explaining something mysterious by something else mysterious, even when there is no indication they are related.

Aren't a lot of AI breakthroughs like this though? "It works, but we don't know why"

Re: DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

#105

Post by katmannthree »

taneq wrote: post #98
katmannthree wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can model neural activations but the whole-cell body simulation was still unstable last I checked (admittedly a year or so ago)

Does the modeled activity track any real world measurements, though? If we're going to claim any real veracity from a simulation then we need to crosscheck it against real measurements, right?

I believe they’ve attempted to measure synapse weights from real worms for training the net, the firings themselves are just basic electrochemistry.

Re: DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

#106

Post by dekhn »

tialaramex wrote: post #37
runnerup wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe plenty of "quantum phenomenon" are utilized in humans' biochemistry[0]. Whether the brain "calculates" things using a method that is particularly similar to the methods used in today's quantum computers is...unlikely. It probably is "quantum" in other ways though. 0: https://www.the-scientist.com/infographics/infographic--quan...

Yes. It's unavoidably "quantum" in the sense that, as a physical machine in our universe it's subject to the rules, including quantum physics. However there is no apparent mechanism by which "thinking" could harness any interesting properties of quantum physics, it's just not happening at the right scale, like the way kids sand walls on the beach don't alter the world's tides.

Specifically: thinking and creativity do not require the QM phenomena of entanglement, tunnelling, uncertainty, or interference, no matter how much Penrose wants it to be true.

By the butterfly principle, sand walls on the beach do alter the world's tides.

Re: DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

#107

Post by dmingod666 »

visarga wrote: post #92
saltyfamiliar wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That proportions in that analogy seem way off. Every single neuron of the human brain could be utilizing quantum mechanical effects at the same time. Not very much at all like a kid's sand castle against the world's tides. I don't think anyone really understand "thinking" and quantum mechanics well enough for the mechanisms to be apparent. I mean, squirrels convert forest detritus into general intelligence. I don't u…

> I don't understand the strong certainty against the idea that there's some physics based piece of the puzzle that we're missing. There is a missing piece of the puzzle all right, it's the huge role the environment and body play in developing intelligence. Everyone's focusing on quantum effects or just the brain forgetting that all they learn comes from the experience of the environment on the body. The forces that…

I have no opinion in either direction, but, I don't think nature discriminates in the usage of its tools based on the current understanding of humans.

Re: DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

#108

Post by sdenton4 »

HPsquared wrote: post #104
visarga wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessary. Quantum AI is basically explaining something mysterious by something else mysterious, even when there is no indication they are related.

Aren't a lot of AI breakthroughs like this though? "It works, but we don't know why"

There's no evidence that "it" is working in the first place, though.

Re: DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

#109

Post by dekhn »

saltyfamiliar wrote: post #19
neom wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got into a very long debate with an openai person 4/5 years ago about this + adversarial learning + access to a quantum computer (think just straight up world class abacus) was close to the primitives required for more generalized AI. They didn't agree with me, but that's ok! :)

Does anyone know if we understand enough about natural, generally intelligent brains to dismiss the idea that they are using quantum phenomenon for computation? Is it unlikely for any reason?

nobody needs to "dismiss the idea", the null hypothesis is that brains don't exploit quantum phenomena. In the absence of any reason for them doing so, and the lack of evidence that the do so, the onus is on the quantum brain folks to come up with better falsifiable theories.

Re: DeepMind’s new AI with a memory outperforms algorithms 25 times its size

#110

Post by blovescoffee »

x3al wrote: post #76
charcircuit wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, vram

Would m1 max work?

Right now there's meh Deep Learning support on the m1 max. TensorFlow is ~supported~, PyTorch is not. Apple has their Neural Engine and CPU/GPU architectures sort of hidden and so it's hard to port or support them.
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