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What Problem Blockchains Solve

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Re: What Problem Blockchains Solve

#101

Post by nhinck »

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #71
jagger27 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because of the non-stop barrage of bullshit projects that don't solve actual problems besides "I wish I bought Bitcoin at $100 so here's my attempt to recreate that magic". TFA makes a solid argument about the limited problem space where blockchain tech is useful. > Or is it just because it's complex and takes a lot of effort to understand? Look, I see that you're deep into the ecosystem and you're excited about…

"It's the human factors surrounding all of it that make it so fucking tiresome thread after thread." But that is also what makes it so interesting. Nobody forces people to use and assign value to Bitcoin. It all happens only because people want it. No government mandates, nothing.

Very similar energy to homeopathy/chiropracty.

Re: What Problem Blockchains Solve

#102

Post by wtsnz »

dmitriid wrote: post #49
wtsnz wrote: post #24

They also allow for micro transactions in a way we’ve not been able to do so far. You can use the original Bitcoin protocol to stream (and pay) for each packet of data. We can now make a pay-to-use netflix, something we haven’t done yet. https://xiaohuiliu.medium.com/netflix-over-bitcoin-payment-c...

> They also allow for micro transactions in a way we’ve not been able to do so far. Yes. Extremely slow, inefficient and expensive. We really haven't been able to do micro transactions this way before.

They don’t have to be what you described. The BSV network does more transactions each day than any other network at a magnitude less cost. Less cost in both user end and CO2.

https://coincarboncap.com/

Re: What Problem Blockchains Solve

#103

Post by f6v »

0x0nyandesu wrote: post #46
arcticbull wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, that's called regulatory arbitrage. It's not a [edit](unique) use case, it's basically crime, give or take. You're just skipping the AML and KYC checks that you'd ordinarily be required to take. Believe it or not sending money takes a few milliseconds in a classical system, except for, you know, regulatory and compliance checks that coiners pretend aren't actually needed. The use cases are: regulatory arbitrag…

I always tell people of how my mother was smuggling Soviet rubles stitched into her coat when she flew to NYC to immigrate to America and in the real world people are aghast at the unjust laws of the USSR while on the internet everyone is like "but the law". Fuck the law. Law != Justice. Use some critical thinking skills for once. You earned your wealth. It's not the government's.

She got an exit visa to the USA, yet had to smuggle rubbles? Something doesn’t add up.

Re: What Problem Blockchains Solve

#104

Post by f6v »

0x0nyandesu wrote: post #95
f6v wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> forced labor Yes, that’s exactly why people who actually lived there now regret its collapse. The younger the person, the more they were oppressed by the KGB.

Keep telling yourself that. My grandparents just died. They hated the USSR for stealing their best years from them. They didn't even get to travel until they were in their 50s.

It’s not a question of anecdata, but statistics. I’m sorry for your loss, but you can’t argue there’re many-many people who regret USSR is no more. Just look at the polls.

Re: What Problem Blockchains Solve

#105

Post by dragonwriter »

seanhunter wrote: post #78
wellthisisgreat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the uses cases of blockchain that have been deployed outside of financial schemes, where the blockchain solves a problem in a unique way that could not have been addressed with non-blockchain? Sure there were probably blockchain projects that got traction and use blockchain, but the only reason it’s blockchain was that it’s easier to get funding for that. Genuinely curious.

You will probably consider these as "financial schemes", but having worked in finance for many years my impression is there are a number of problems in financial infrastructure that are extremely annoying and costly at the moment which could be much better addressed with blockchain based solutions. Blockchain is not the only way you could solve them, it just has the potential to be much better. One example: Trade rec…

> but how do things get into the central database in the first place and how do the participants trust that the record there is good?

Either party enters them as a candidate record, including identifying the counterparty, and both acknowledge it.

Or one party creates and digitally signs a record, and sends it to the other, who digitally signs and records it in the central database that act also constituting acceptance.

Blockchain doesn't solve anything explicit in this scenario (it doesn't address lack of trust between parties better than a centralized system), what it arguably does is address lack of trust in the operator of the centralized system, if one can instead trust the aggregate of operators of the distributed system.

Re: What Problem Blockchains Solve

#106

Post by wtsnz »

arcticbull wrote: post #52
wtsnz wrote: post #24

They also allow for micro transactions in a way we’ve not been able to do so far. You can use the original Bitcoin protocol to stream (and pay) for each packet of data. We can now make a pay-to-use netflix, something we haven’t done yet. https://xiaohuiliu.medium.com/netflix-over-bitcoin-payment-c...

Microtransactions have been something we could take advantage of since the dawn of custodial wallets - at least since PayPal came into existence in 1998. However, microtransactions aren't something humans actually like. It's something technocrats think people want, but when they get it, well - let's just say there's piles of carcasses of dead startups littering the field. As Nick Szabo will attest, each transaction y…

The mental cost of a transaction is a really interesting point.

However, why couldn’t we have both options be available?

If there is one film on a streaming service that I know I’d like to watch, but don’t want to commit to $10 a month just to watch the first 30 mins of, why can’t I pay for the minutes of the media I watch instead?

This also could be an interesting monetization method for creators who make videos on YouTube who dislike adverts. I’d be more happy to pay to support the creators directly, if I knew they’d get a good cut.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that humans don’t like micro transactions as we’ve never been able to try it in the real world. Sure, they might not work for everything, but they may allow for new things to flourish. Things that cost $0.001 cents for example.

Re: What Problem Blockchains Solve

#107

Post by 0x0nyandesu »

f6v wrote: post #104
0x0nyandesu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep telling yourself that. My grandparents just died. They hated the USSR for stealing their best years from them. They didn't even get to travel until they were in their 50s.

It’s not a question of anecdata, but statistics. I’m sorry for your loss, but you can’t argue there’re many-many people who regret USSR is no more. Just look at the polls.

Here's the thing. I don't care about their opinion. The USSR was evil. Collaborators get no sympathy from me. They could be the majority and I'd still want to overthrow that system of government. It's anti freedom.

Re: What Problem Blockchains Solve

#108

Post by rojeee »

seanhunter wrote: post #78
wellthisisgreat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the uses cases of blockchain that have been deployed outside of financial schemes, where the blockchain solves a problem in a unique way that could not have been addressed with non-blockchain? Sure there were probably blockchain projects that got traction and use blockchain, but the only reason it’s blockchain was that it’s easier to get funding for that. Genuinely curious.

You will probably consider these as "financial schemes", but having worked in finance for many years my impression is there are a number of problems in financial infrastructure that are extremely annoying and costly at the moment which could be much better addressed with blockchain based solutions. Blockchain is not the only way you could solve them, it just has the potential to be much better. One example: Trade rec…

I worked for a blockchain company for 5 years and recently quit because I finally realised blockchain has no feasible real world uses.

What typically happens is that a company suggests they want blockchain to solve some problem, like trade reconciliations for example and gets together a groups of likeminded partners. After lots of deliberation they then build some blockchain thing. However it turns out that the blockchain solution is more expensive (hardware and devs), more difficult to understand (see upgrades comment below) and generally worse in most regards compared to a centralised solution.

Furthermore, there are difficult technical problems to overcome like versioning (eg flag days vs rolling upgrades, backward compatibility of protocol upgrades) which there are no good compromises to. Eg company A wants to upgrade but B doesn’t, so no one can upgrade. Because of this you can’t really use a single network so you need a federation of networks and this gets really complicated.

The other issue is around systems of record. Companies - of sufficient size - by law need to maintain financial and operation records and of course they manage the golden source for these records. Conventional wisdom is that blockchain can be the new golden source but it doesn’t work like that because what’s ends up needing to happen is that all the participants end up reconciling what’s in the blockchain to their own systems! The blockchain becomes another system! They need to do this because the blockchain can’t contain any private/enriched data for a particular company (eg company A reports using UK GAAP and company B reports using IFRS).

Some companies struggle on with the blockchain because there is a true believer sponsoring the project. They waste a lot of effort. I’ve seen companies Chuck away tens of millions and have nothing to show for it. Most companies end up ditching the blockchain and build a centralised solution using something like a clearing house model where all participants are owners and get a proportionate say on governance for the centralised entity.

Don’t get me wrong… There are uses for blockchain but they are typically infeasible to implement because the costs outweigh the benefits.

I was doing blockchain for 10 years before I gave up. I was really enthusiastic about it before but now I know that the enterprise space won’t go anywhere and the permissionless/web3 space will likely get regulated out of existence in due course.

Re: What Problem Blockchains Solve

#109

Post by 0x0nyandesu »

f6v wrote: post #103
0x0nyandesu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always tell people of how my mother was smuggling Soviet rubles stitched into her coat when she flew to NYC to immigrate to America and in the real world people are aghast at the unjust laws of the USSR while on the internet everyone is like "but the law". Fuck the law. Law != Justice. Use some critical thinking skills for once. You earned your wealth. It's not the government's.

She got an exit visa to the USA, yet had to smuggle rubbles? Something doesn’t add up.

At the time all cash found on you would be taken from you at the airport. What is there to add up?

It was their way of sticking it to people for "abandoning" the country.

Re: What Problem Blockchains Solve

#110

Post by f6v »

0x0nyandesu wrote: post #107
f6v wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a question of anecdata, but statistics. I’m sorry for your loss, but you can’t argue there’re many-many people who regret USSR is no more. Just look at the polls.

Here's the thing. I don't care about their opinion. The USSR was evil. Collaborators get no sympathy from me. They could be the majority and I'd still want to overthrow that system of government. It's anti freedom.

That’s very thought-through and rational. /s
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