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I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

visaalambalam.com

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Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#101
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that we're being sold the 'meritocracy' narrative in the academical and technical circles. You often see it in HN discussions about hiring decisions (reasoning involving the "top 1% programmers" without any indication as to what that means exactly). If you have the introverted, dilligent, keeping-your-head-down, got-high-marks-at-school mentality that I assume is prevalent on HN, it can come as a shock…

Or you simply view being sociable as part of Merit. In fact I'd wager that to do well in almost any job you need to be sociable. Merit is not just about technical ability.

How is this really "Merit"? I'm "sociable" in the sense that due to my familly on my mother's side, i'm very used to talk to small business CEOs/CTOs, and from where i lived and studied, i'm comfortable talking to people who grew in a lot less fortunate households. I don't have one friend among those who did well in the corporate world. Because being "sociable" is more about cultural inheritance than anything. I am an introvert, but i was taught how to live with it (theatre, playing violin in front of a crowd, stuff like that). It was not particularly expensive in my country, so it is true that anyone could afford to do the same, thus "Merit", one could argue, but inheriting my grandfather violin, having my mother doing an art degree (and a medical one) and my father working as a social worker while being __extremely__ well taught tapestry then painting gave me conversation subject and "useless" knowledge for ages. Because knowing the reasoning behind impressionism, which impressionist school did what and how it evolved did a lot more than knowing how to code a VM for my current career.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#102
Maybe this is a US problem… I graduated (Master Degree) at the 1st university of my country (Italy) for engineering 10 years ago. By graduation day I was already employed… and had the luxury of choosing the offer that inspired me the most (had more than 10 offers… basically every company I interview with made an offer). After graduation my phone kept ringing at least twice a day with companies reaching out to try to schedule an interview for months! And the best part that my education was extremely cheap! Annual university fee was less than 2k euros!

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#103
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to submit some objection but it turns out you've posted quite interesting links so I'm going to ponder that for a while. If I don't edit this post consider that you've successfully convinced me and changed my mind. Thanks for the pointers!

I took my daughter out of her school two weeks ago for her own safety (sexual harassment with school/direction turning a blind eye), so while I was following a bit how a kid is educated in today world, the last 2 weeks were fairly interesting and just motivated me even more to home-school her (cannot afford what seems to be good private schools here), and I don't see the point to pay 3k a year (Hattemer distance lear…

(i'm assuming you're French):

I've worked with home-schooled kids ("good" ones, with parent invested in their education). I don't know if the program still exist, but we had satisfied parents and good results, and i think now the experiences we made are available with manuals for the parents: https://www.lespetitsdebrouillards.org. (i was in Loire-atlantique at the time)(i just looked at it and it seems less science-focused than it was).

At the time we only heard issue with science programs (bio, PC), and maybe it was a bias as "les petits debrouillards" are a club focused on science experiments, but we've heard that the CNED program on those subjects were not engaging enough for the children (again, could be a sample bias). I guess now it might be easier to find engaging resources on those subjects, but still, don't hesitate to take a look at this club.

Also, if your daughter have issues with mathematics, wolfram Alpha is an amazing support to teach her, my sister did not do any kind of math since 2016, and was quite bad at it in school, i taught her enough in less than two weekends for her to validate her first semester of college (Basics + Complex numbers the first weekend, derivation, integration and function analysis the second one).

Good luck, school is supposed to support parents, but if you can't trust them with your child, it is worse than useless.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#104
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't, check the subjects of current brevet, bac and textbooks, it's just fluff. One fault is the drop in teaching hours : https://www.reseau-canope.fr/musee/collections/cache/a65f40c... this is a schedule from 1952. We are lying to kids and parents : https://twitter.com/loysbonod/status/1356128734508679168 Or Pierre Colmez writting : https://webusers.imj-prg.fr/~pierre.colmez/lettre.pdf and https://images.ma…

> One fault is the drop in teaching hours : https://www.reseau-canope.fr/musee/collections/cache/a65f40c ... this is a schedule from 1952. Is that really more than today? It doesn't seem like it.

20 years ago from http://www.sauv.net/primeng.php So while the whole duration might be the same, the amount of time dedicated to French or Math is slashed to teach other "subjects".

> - The drastic reduction of the overall time allotted to the acquisition of basic knowledge and skills. Over the last 30 years, for example, French first-graders have lost six hours a week of language instruction --- 15 hours a week in 1967 compared to a mere 9 hours today. Within the elementary school cycle as a whole, such reductions mean, in practical terms, the loss of an entire year of schooling in that subject area.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#105
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took my daughter out of her school two weeks ago for her own safety (sexual harassment with school/direction turning a blind eye), so while I was following a bit how a kid is educated in today world, the last 2 weeks were fairly interesting and just motivated me even more to home-school her (cannot afford what seems to be good private schools here), and I don't see the point to pay 3k a year (Hattemer distance lear…

(i'm assuming you're French): I've worked with home-schooled kids ("good" ones, with parent invested in their education). I don't know if the program still exist, but we had satisfied parents and good results, and i think now the experiences we made are available with manuals for the parents: https://www.lespetitsdebrouillards.org . (i was in Loire-atlantique at the time)(i just looked at it and it seems less science…

Thank you for the information, I will check back Wolfram Alpha, otherwise our case is a bit special as school was a way to slow down her learning speed (otherwise 7, not 11...insane situation, kid brains are rotten in some areas )

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#106
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One fault is the drop in teaching hours : https://www.reseau-canope.fr/musee/collections/cache/a65f40c ... this is a schedule from 1952. Is that really more than today? It doesn't seem like it.

20 years ago from http://www.sauv.net/primeng.php So while the whole duration might be the same, the amount of time dedicated to French or Math is slashed to teach other "subjects". > - The drastic reduction of the overall time allotted to the acquisition of basic knowledge and skills. Over the last 30 years, for example, French first-graders have lost six hours a week of language instruction --- 15 hours a week in 1…

Well, I guess it depends what you value. Some of these French hours went to a 2nd language, and personally I think it's a good tradeoff.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#107
post #86
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but his point is that the society that marshaled those degree-holders only had a pool of 5% of graduates to draw on. There's no question that some jobs require college education; the question is whether there are enough of them to justify pushing the majority of 18-year-olds into 4-year colleges.

The mood landing is pretty bad example. It is useless except for propaganda and good feeling. It is organizational and technological achievement, but not particularly needed by society that produced it. People don't go to college to moorland nor to facilitate next war. They go to college to get corporate jobs.

Looking at the moon landing and the Manhattan project, you hear about the very few PhDs on the program. They were outnumbered at least 100:1 by skilled tradespeople who manufactured components of those programs. None of those manufacturing jobs need a college degree, just time and focus, which a college degree detracts from by taking 4 more years of your life. You should look at the LHC for a modern example. Even these feats of science need a small minority of people employed in them to be trained scientists.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#108
post #2

After the experience of meeting the Uber driver with an degree in actuarial science unable to apply his education it shattered my rose colored glasses about how education today is "The Great Equalizer" and the solution to all of our problems. I wanted to share these thoughts to discuss any cool ideas to bridge the gap between an education and effectively increasing opportunity for people as automation take away more…

Founder of https://www.whiteowleducation.com here. Undergrad dual major in Actuarial Science and Computer Science (with a MBA a long time after undergrad). Without additional context, my guess would be that the Uber driver maybe focused on applications of math and statistics to the insurance industry, but maybe focused more on passing actuarial exams and less on using programming in order to implement the models. Som…

I like the idea! Maybe it shouldn't be only college or nothing else but rather a mix of college + an industry specific bootcamp OR more co-op or shadowing programs that could bridge the gap.

I think the solution might lie in teaching people the process of learning what they don't know on their own. Some people are just naturally "scrappy" or want something so bad they'll go out of their way to figure it out without connections. Maybe if we can deconstruct that into a course it could help people chart their own path rather than rely on other people to tell them what to do.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#109

Maybe this is a US problem… I graduated (Master Degree) at the 1st university of my country (Italy) for engineering 10 years ago. By graduation day I was already employed… and had the luxury of choosing the offer that inspired me the most (had more than 10 offers… basically every company I interview with made an offer). After graduation my phone kept ringing at least twice a day with companies reaching out to try to…

Could you say that for all engineering graduates at the majority of universities (even the bottom 50%)? I know plenty of people who had internships and were effectively employed a year before graduating, but I can't say the majority of people are in that position.

If education is just 2k euros rather than the 15k (public) or 60k (private) in the US, I agree it's much less of an issue for sure because much less is at stake.

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