101–110 of 146 posts
Blame the fans, so what is the next thing they will remove, floors above 2nd, sharp objects, electricity? Everything else but not the cause ...
However making suicide harder, does reduce the suicide rate. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves...
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As there are many ways to commit suicide, school could equally tie everyone in padded cells, and tube feed students in order to avoid any suicide. Be careful when using such studies, as future AI may use those and similar - to remove all freedoms from humans, arguing that humans are dangerous for themselves, thus creating new Matrix?! Root cause can be maybe a terrible education system and society that is fit more fo…
Thus creating a NEW Matrix? You've said too much!
Thi will never cure the underlying cause of suicides, of course, but adding even slight obstacles has proven to have an effect on suicide rates. Many suicides aren't thoughtfully planned out, but are just a combination of motive and easy opportunity. Even adding something as seemingly silly as a moderately difficult to climb fence to a bridge can reduce suicide rates. This is a fine measure, assuming that it's follow…
This looks as bikeshedding. If you want to eliminate suicides, finding and fixing the motivation to commit the act is the way to go. Having a fan on a ceiling is not an opportunity, just one of the many available means to an end and not a compelling one, so it is really a way to pretending to care while not doing the right thing.
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Right, but it is really important that you follow up with psychological help. Sometimes I wonder if suicide prevention measures like this just remove the last bit of agency that people have, and while they will live on, they will just suffer silently. Maybe suicides are not thoughtfully planned out, but they are often preceeded by a very long phase of suicidal thoughts and rumination, and sometimes fixation on specif…
Being a student can be especially depressing, odds are that people will get better once they have that phase behind them.
The result was that the student body was composed to a greater degree of people who really wanted to be there doing what they were doing and to a slightly greater degree capable of doing it. I suspect that this would mean a slightly lesser incidence of depression.
I can easily imagine that a lot of students now also feel that they are unsuited to study but also feel that they must continue with the degree because the piece of paper they receive at the end is so important now because so many jobs demand it. So instead of dropping out and, perhaps, taking a vocational course instead they continue studying a subject that is beyond them or perhaps merely uninteresting.
Of course this is just speculation that seems plausible to me. Are there any good and approachable statistical analyses on the subject?
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> Suicide isn't logical or rational. This is bullshit. It may or may not be depending on individual conditions. If someone knows that they will suffer significatly for the rest of their lives, then it's entirely logical ans rational for them to end their life. It would be irrational to continue living if the cons were guaranteed (or even had a high likelyhood) to outweigh the pros.
You ignored the "almost always" part. And for me "suffering" is not that logical or rational at all, for that matter. The expectation of such suffering can be reasonable. The willingness to end this suffering can be reasonable. This, however, is a small minority of suicides, suicide attempts and even more so, suicidal ideation.
> This, however, is a small minority of suicides, suicide attempts and even more so, suicidal ideation.
What data do you base this on and why do you believe that data to be representative?
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It used to be the case in the US that women attempted suicide at a higher rate than men, but men succeed at a higher rate. The difference was said to be the method, and of course guns were a favored method with men.
It is still the case that women attempted suicides is higher and the results a lot lower, but as far as I remember in most cases for women it was just a way to cry for help, not to actually do it, while men were on the other side. I cannot find a link right now, I think it was a video of a psychology class.
Of course there are also people who have carefully considered their options and decided they really want to die, but I suspect that's a very different group.
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It is still the case that women attempted suicides is higher and the results a lot lower, but as far as I remember in most cases for women it was just a way to cry for help, not to actually do it, while men were on the other side. I cannot find a link right now, I think it was a video of a psychology class.
I think for most it's a cry for help, but some people die before they get the help because their method is too effective. Of course there are also people who have carefully considered their options and decided they really want to die, but I suspect that's a very different group.
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This looks as bikeshedding. If you want to eliminate suicides, finding and fixing the motivation to commit the act is the way to go. Having a fan on a ceiling is not an opportunity, just one of the many available means to an end and not a compelling one, so it is really a way to pretending to care while not doing the right thing.
Well, it turns out your intuitions on this one are wrong. Means restriction is one of the most empirically supported suicide-prevention strategies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6191653/
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This looks as bikeshedding. If you want to eliminate suicides, finding and fixing the motivation to commit the act is the way to go. Having a fan on a ceiling is not an opportunity, just one of the many available means to an end and not a compelling one, so it is really a way to pretending to care while not doing the right thing.
Well, it turns out your intuitions on this one are wrong. Means restriction is one of the most empirically supported suicide-prevention strategies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6191653/
If someone still wants to kill themselves, but cannot because all means have been eliminated, have you solved any problems?
I'm honestly not sure that I'd argue it doesn't increase quality of life, but using suicide prevention as an outcome seems superficial to me.