Americans are rethinking where they want to live • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#101

Post by yunohn » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #81

yunohn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> look more like Syria than first world nation Serious question, have you actually been to Syria? Can you cite some sources that can prove this comparison?

I was, several times, beginning with ~ 1982 till a few years ago. I lived in that region for a while and in US for a while. What is the point of the question, to argue it is not that bad, an ad hominem or a red herring?

Surely, you could provide some photographic evidence (own or other sources) that prove your comparisons then?

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#102

Post by zozbot234 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #54

Tiktaalik wrote: post #35

> First, people have been leaving large, dense, expensive urban cores for smaller, less-dense cities and suburbs. This trend is going to make reducing CO2 emissions even harder.

Maybe maybe not. A lot depends on what happens next. The assumption here is that people are moving out of urban areas and then not commuting back in. If that really is the case, unlike in the commuting form of suburbanization, then service businesses will follow those people, if they are allowed to. This would be a great outcome, but it depends on a lot of assumptions.

> If that really is the case, unlike in the commuting form of suburbanization, then service businesses will follow those people, if they are allowed to.

That would require these areas to be zoned for mixed business/residential, which very few suburbs are.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#103

Post by throwaway0a5e » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #58

jstepka wrote: post #17

Silicon Valley / SF have had a stranglehold on the digital economy for the last 20-30 years -- nearly anything that touches electrics or software had a "tax" where some portion of that innovation flowed back as cash. With covid / the great reset, I've seen so many leave the bay area now that they can work remote. It's occured to me that SV / SF will need to reinvent itself and be in a rough patch for a couple years.…

There’s a fine line with this though — the advantage of hiring Americans in the Midwest versus hiring in Europe and Asia needs to be solidified somehow.

I think the Californians are going to be first on the chopping block. They're expensive and what can they do that a bunch of midwesterners can't? I think international teams are a given in both cases.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#104

Post by sanderjd » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #93

sanderjd wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason (besides inertia) that we can't have both. This is how thriving smaller downtowns are, single family homes within walking distance to amenities. It's just that all those areas get really expensive because there are so few of them. But there don't have to be so few places like that.

How do those smaller downtowns thrive? The few I know usually have rich populations that do not mind spending more than what Costco/Target/Walmart/big grocery stores sell at. All it takes is the big box stores to setup camp 10 minutes outside of town and almost everyone with a car will opt to save money and shop there.

Yes, it requires a population that appreciates the local amenities to the point of paying more for them. Lots of these people exist, even if they aren't the majority of people. It's just that right now they are concentrated in the dense part of cities. But many of them would love to live in a bigger house if they could still walk to amenities, and would still be willing to pay more for the privilege.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#105

Post by silisili » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #51

I'd go South if the politics start to blue-up. I figure if this trend holds as the article says, by the time I'm ready to retire there will have been two censuses. I care about social justice, local produce, and warm weather. The south has 2 out of 3.

Southern CA has all of that, why not just move there?

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#106

Post by selectodude » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #80

ben-schaaf wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always crazy to hear that suburbs are cheaper. Dense living inherently requires less infrastructure and less transportation, so it should be considerably cheaper. It's only through the subsidisation of suburbia and the low supply/high demand of high density urban areas that this is the case. Car centric suburbs aren't just terrible for the environment, terrible for safety and terrible for transportation; they're…

With remote work becoming the norm, it is significantly less terrible. I remote 100% and the only time I drive is to visit family and friends. I put around 1500 miles a year on the car.

I don't care how big my house is. The idea of being locked inside like that sounds absolutely awful to me.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#107

Post by davewritescode » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to see in this. Once a company figures out how to leverage a developer in the Midwest as effectively as one in the Bay Area what stops them from hiring in the Dominican, or Mexico or South America? I've worked with fantastic developers from those areas who can effectively work on the same timezones, communicate well and write high quality code.

I know personally, I've seen a lot of hiring shifting to Latin America in the last 2 years. I don't think this is going to be the midwestern/southern renascence that people think it's going to be.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#108

Post by ethbr0 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

Jerrrry wrote: post #68

jermaustin1 wrote: post #28

I've heard this brought up as a kind of second round of white flight. The middle- and upper-class (primarily) white population is once again moving out of urban centers because telecommuting is something that these high-salary jobs afford them. I think it will rebound a bit (but not much), as moving from urban to suburban is a very difficult transition, but its even harder going the other way once you've adjusted. I…

Many like you are buying up lake-front properties in rural places. I recommend it, playing farmer-cowboy-houseboateer in Kentucky/Tennessee is a magnitude cheaper than out west, even if you fail, you are out less money than simply living elsewhere.

Just learn the accent before you move there, and don't tell your neighbors where you're from.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#109

Post by mumblemumble » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

larrymyers wrote: post #10

My family and I decided to stay on the north side of Chicago, a very high cost of living location, despite no longer needing to head downtown every day for work. Why not move outside of Chicago where our cost living would be substantially lower? * We wanted to keep our kids in the same school, which is walking distance. * We like being walking distance to the grocery store, doctor's offices, etc. * Our kids can walk…

I grew up in the country, used to live in the suburbs, and currently live in Chicago.

Yes, we could afford to have a lot more space that we personally own if we lived in a less dense area. But no, I don't miss it. I don't feel cooped up in a small space where I live right now. Nor did I feel cooped up living in a college dormitory, for that matter.

I do feel cooped up in a small space when I'm staying with friends and family who have palatial homes out in the suburbs for any length of time. My sense of how much space I have at my disposal changes drastically when I'm in an environment where the only space I'm allowed to use freely is space I'm personally owning or renting.

It hits my kids even worse. For them, one backyard, even a big one, is simply not enough room to run.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#110

Post by ravitation » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #54

Tiktaalik wrote: post #35

> First, people have been leaving large, dense, expensive urban cores for smaller, less-dense cities and suburbs. This trend is going to make reducing CO2 emissions even harder.

Maybe maybe not. A lot depends on what happens next. The assumption here is that people are moving out of urban areas and then not commuting back in. If that really is the case, unlike in the commuting form of suburbanization, then service businesses will follow those people, if they are allowed to. This would be a great outcome, but it depends on a lot of assumptions.

While I agree we don't really know, I think it is quite likely to have a negative effect.

Take, for example, these comments, which are full of people who have left NYC, a place where you can function entirely without a car, and moved to places like Texas and Florida, where you, for the most part, cannot. Sure they might not be commuting anymore (which was likely by public transit anyway), but they are now driving several times a day, likely relatively far distances, when they were not before.