Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match • Hacker News Board

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#101

Post by zarzavat » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:04 PM UTC

thom wrote: post #85

AmericanChopper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t think the commentary was that good this year, too many awkward personalities. Anish was constantly talking over Judit. I tuned into to Vishy’s stream for a bit, but the person he had with him was incredibly awkward. I find Danny Rensch to be completely insufferable, which is a shame because Caruana is so good. Howell and Houska are pretty good, but they had some terrible guests on that stream, and all of the…

Anish did talk over Judit a lot, but quite often that was justified. At the moment of the c5 blunder, for example, they were analysing that exact move because Judit had suggested it, and Anish was explaining how it was just a whole piece.

Yes while I understand how Giri could come across as rude, personally I thought he was just extremely passionate. As the 3rd place finisher in the Candidates he was very personally invested in this match, it could have easily been him sitting across from Carlsen.

If there's one person who could handle him and remain completely cool throughout it's Judit, they made a good team.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#102

Post by AmericanChopper » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:14 PM UTC

bottled_poe wrote: post #60

thisisonthetest wrote: post #36

wish there was a spoiler tag, bummer. Well, i was only like 20+ hours away from catching up

Probably don’t read a nerd news site if you don’t want to see nerd news?

NH having sports spoilers on the front page barely ever happens. Chess stories are also very uncommon here.

It’s reasonable not to expect it. But the real lesson is that spoilers can be anywhere. I used to listen to a radio station on the way to work every day, and I’ve heard them talk about Formula 1 exactly 1 time, when they decided the 7am commute show was a good time to spoil the race that happened at 4am. I have no idea why this mostly hip hop oriented radio station decided to talk about F1 that single time, but the lesson I learnt was just to wake up early and watch the sport if I don’t want to have it spoiled.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#103

Post by innocenat » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:15 PM UTC

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #88

v64 wrote: post #2

This match was notable for a number of reasons: 1) Game 6 lasted 136 moves, making it the longest game in world championship history, surpassing the 124 move game 5 of Korchnoi-Karpov in 1978. 2) Carlsen's victory in game 6 was also the first decisive match game (excluding tiebreakers) since game 10 of Carlsen's defense against Karjakin in 2016. Carlsen's defense against Caruana in 2018 featured 12 draws before movin…

> Carlsen's defense against Caruana in 2018 featured 12 draws before moving into tiebreakers I really hope they are able to figure out some not-too-unnatural way to reduce the likelihood of draws. One easy possibility I saw suggested a number of times would be to remove the increment. Give additional time at certain move thresholds like they do now, but then at some point, that's it. No more time. Time pressure shoul…

Strongly disagree. The main series of WCC should have players playing at the highest level, so there should not be too much time pressure. If it's all draw, that means players are equal at that level, so the tie-breaker match has more time pressure.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#104

Post by innocenat » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:32 PM UTC

spindle wrote: post #63

v64 wrote: post #2

This match was notable for a number of reasons: 1) Game 6 lasted 136 moves, making it the longest game in world championship history, surpassing the 124 move game 5 of Korchnoi-Karpov in 1978. 2) Carlsen's victory in game 6 was also the first decisive match game (excluding tiebreakers) since game 10 of Carlsen's defense against Karjakin in 2016. Carlsen's defense against Caruana in 2018 featured 12 draws before movin…

Go / baduk / weiqi is also amazing from the point of view of how much stamina the players have to have. See, for example, https://senseis.xmp.net/?LongestTimeSpentThinkingAboutAMove

I was looking at Go vs Shogi time control and was surprised that at top level Shogi match usually give more time to players, despite being mathematically less complex. AFAIK the longest allotted time in Go is Japanese Mejin match at 8 hour/player. Longest for Shogi is Shogi Mejiin Match at 9 hour/player. Even standard ranking match in Japanese Shogi allow 6 hour/player, more than any Chess tournament I have seen (at present).

I watched a lot of Shogi match, and that just make 3.15 hours allotted in WCC looks low.

(The 8-9 hour match is a 2-day match. At specified time on the first day player do sealed move, to be reveal at the beginning of a match the next day.)

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#105

Post by busyant » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:35 PM UTC

manquer wrote: post #33

colmvp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One enthusiast on Reddit predicted Nepo would crumble after the first loss and Carlsen would win 4 games to 0. What was really frustrating was Nepo had plenty of time left on the clock during those blunders, almost like he was resigned to the fact that he wouldn't beat Carlsen. It also really puts into perspective how impressive Caruana was in 2018.

Playing for draws is easier than playing for wins. At the world top level it is easier to try and draw games, so it doesn't that say that much really, Caruana's draws were not that remarkable or memorable as well. He is a skilled player no doubt, and impressiven in his own right, but his 2018 performance is not a good way to gauge that .

> Playing for draws is easier than playing for wins.

This is nonsense. Neither Caruana nor Carlsen were playing for draws.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#106

Post by tzs » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:44 PM UTC

CalChris wrote: post #4

Game 6 was pretty tight and pretty good. You have to realize they were playing the last moves after midnight and they were playing them on increment, 30 seconds a move, basically rapid. Nepo's 'blunder' is an extremely natural looking move, 130. .. Qe6 and it only loses in 49 moves. But as was predicted before the match, if Nepo lost one it'd be an avalanche. Nepo only squeezed in because the Candidates tournament wa…

> Nepo only squeezed in because the Candidates tournament was so weird with Covid and all. Caruana again, Ding Liren or Firouzja would have been much stronger opponents.

Of those four, Nepo is the one with the best record against Carlsen even after this match.

Nepo (before this match): 4W 1L 8D (2/0/5 as black, 2/1/3 as white).

Nepo (after this match): 4W 5L 14D

Ding Liren: 0W 1L 8D

Caruana: 5W 11L 38D

Firouzja: 0W 4L 2D

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#107

Post by tux1968 » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:52 PM UTC

thom wrote: post #85

AmericanChopper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t think the commentary was that good this year, too many awkward personalities. Anish was constantly talking over Judit. I tuned into to Vishy’s stream for a bit, but the person he had with him was incredibly awkward. I find Danny Rensch to be completely insufferable, which is a shame because Caruana is so good. Howell and Houska are pretty good, but they had some terrible guests on that stream, and all of the…

Anish did talk over Judit a lot, but quite often that was justified. At the moment of the c5 blunder, for example, they were analysing that exact move because Judit had suggested it, and Anish was explaining how it was just a whole piece.

Judit had a huge amount of patience and didn't seem frustrated by Anish at all, through any of the coverage. And even though Judit did initially play the c5 blunder, she was really great and insightful through the entire match, many times seeing things that Anish missed. Really they made a great duo and added to the fun and enjoyment of a difficult and long match.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#108

Post by tzs » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 1:00 PM UTC

throwaway81523 wrote: post #3

v64 wrote: post #2

This match was notable for a number of reasons: 1) Game 6 lasted 136 moves, making it the longest game in world championship history, surpassing the 124 move game 5 of Korchnoi-Karpov in 1978. 2) Carlsen's victory in game 6 was also the first decisive match game (excluding tiebreakers) since game 10 of Carlsen's defense against Karjakin in 2016. Carlsen's defense against Caruana in 2018 featured 12 draws before movin…

There was Fischer-Spassky, 12.5 to 8.5 in 1972, where one of Spassky's 8.5 points came from Fischer forfeiting a game by not showing up.

With Fischer his lopsided path to the championship should also be considered.

In the 1970 Interzonal to pick 6 players to go to the Candidates Tournament (along with Korchnoi and Petrosian), Fischer won with 15 W, 1 L, 7 D giving 18.5 points. The next 5 were 3 tied at 15 and 2 tied at 14.

You can change every one of Fischer's draws to a loss in that tournament and he'd still have tied for first.

Then in the Candidates, he played Taimanov, Larsen, and Petrosian.

He beat Taimanov with 6 W, 0 L, 0 D. (Taimanov, a Russian) got into considerable trouble over this. The Russian government did not believe it was possible for a player of his level to be so thoroughly beaten unless it was on purpose. They stopped paying him and banned him from foreign travel).

Then he beat Larsen with 6 W, 0 L, 0 D.

Then he beat Petrosian with 5 W, 1 L, 3 D.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#109

Post by maxiepoo » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #106

CalChris wrote: post #4

Game 6 was pretty tight and pretty good. You have to realize they were playing the last moves after midnight and they were playing them on increment, 30 seconds a move, basically rapid. Nepo's 'blunder' is an extremely natural looking move, 130. .. Qe6 and it only loses in 49 moves. But as was predicted before the match, if Nepo lost one it'd be an avalanche. Nepo only squeezed in because the Candidates tournament wa…

> Nepo only squeezed in because the Candidates tournament was so weird with Covid and all. Caruana again, Ding Liren or Firouzja would have been much stronger opponents. Of those four, Nepo is the one with the best record against Carlsen even after this match. Nepo (before this match): 4W 1L 8D (2/0/5 as black, 2/1/3 as white). Nepo (after this match): 4W 5L 14D Ding Liren: 0W 1L 8D Caruana: 5W 11L 38D Firouzja: 0W 4…

Eh, Nepo's good record against Magnus comes mostly from when they were both playing in youth tournaments. He hasn't beaten Magnus in many years.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#110

Post by maxiepoo » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #93

MVorlm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GOAT isn't obscure or domain specific and is a very common acronym used online for almost anything competitive and doesn't need any more explanation.

>GOAT isn't obscure or domain specific and is a very common acronym used online for almost anything competitive and doesn't need any more explanation. I learned this only a month ago, I am wondering if this is a new thing? I am not from US so maybe this term is used a lot on TV/radio/speech but not used as much in writing(blogs,news not sure about social media/memes) so it could explain why I never known about this u…

I think it's been popularized by the NBA fandom and the incessant Lebron James vs Michael Jordan debates.