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The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

mcc.gse.harvard.edu

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Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#101

Post by ljm »

mchanson wrote: post #87
ljm wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix in the form of a committed relationship (using the example of people not having partners or not thinking about children). There's been an expectation for a long time that your self-worth as a person is connected to being with someone else, and therefore your path to increase self-wor…

You don't need to know how to look after yourself. This is perfect is the enemy of the good type situation. Not being a fully realized person doesn't stop you from making connections. Even deep great friendships. You and your friends can grow together over time. You can cut out friends that are not a good fit over time if they are bad for you (abusive, etc.).

Of course, but this isn't the same thing as the parent poster's surprise about people not finding partners or having kids.

I'm talking specifically about that kind of relationship. As everyone has pointed out, it would not be great to take this approach while making friends and doing the things friends do.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#102

Post by vorpalhex »

raverbashing wrote: post #75
phone8675309 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps a more charitable reading may be "if you’re not staring at a screen perhaps you’ll meet people while out and form social bonds"? If you’re very online and you’re lonely being very online then proposing that you change what you’re doing to perhaps get different results is not the same thing as "have you tried not being sad????"

And why do people think someone just going offline will magically start talking to people (where? with whom?) It's like telling an obese person to go exercise. It is meaningless advice. "Oh but can they figure it out right" Well, if they could maybe they wouldn't be so lonely. And even more in boomer style "just take your printed CV to McDonalds to get a job" pulling people offline might be just cutting the only soci…

If you spend all your time just mulling about online, or watching Netflix, or playing a game, then it's not surprising that you are lonely. You are engaging in solo activities that other people can't really join.

It is not anymore surprising that you are overweight if you don't exercise, and especially if you aren't cooking at home ever.

Cut out any drugs, go to bed at a reasonable hour, exercise, get a hobby, eat decently. If you don't know how to do those things or have medical issues preventing you, go to a doctor/therapist/personal trainer/nutritionist/life coach.

No you aren't going to become a social butterfly just because you finally logged off your game, but if you try a few different organized social events (board game meetups, hiking group, whatever) you will probably start talking to a few people.

If you still can't, then you need to talk to a therapist. You probably have either never developed or allowed your social skills to decay and need help to get them back on track.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#103

Post by mellavora »

panaffa wrote: post #49

I'm a young GenZ adult. Just woke up and got depressed seeing this headline because it reinforces what I've experienced & felt. Loneliness is inherent to the human body and soul (unless perhaps we get Neuralink or AI friends someday). I am deeply sad over all the social fantasies I never had and probably never will now that I'm a working adult.

Hey, you have my sympathy and understanding. And I've certainly been through some dark times mentally, and those often had strong elements of loneliness -- the kind that people say they 'battled my way through' as if fighting your self gets you anywhere and also assuming that it is somehow wrong or unacceptable to be in a dark place, i.e. it must be battled, or that the battling is what gets you to a different mental place...

So I get that from where you sit, you see that

> Loneliness is inherent to the human body and soul

But I've come to see that if that is true, it is only true in the way that there are shadows on a sunny day. The shadows let you know that the light is shining. The inherent nature of all life is love.

It can be damn hard to find sometimes, and ego and modern western culture seem bent on destroying it, but it is there.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#104

Post by basisword »

panaffa wrote: post #91
mrdoops wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need stable, actionable futures. Homes they can afford to own, communities they can raise kids in, an environment that won't go up in flames; they need systems that have their back.

Good point on agency. Throughout their lives GenZ has either had less agency or felt like we have less agency to do what we want. Certainly true for some financial goals like buying a house

The oldest gen z are just out of college though. I think it’s the younger millennials you might be describing (people a decade into their career with little prospect of home ownership).

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#105

Post by dfxm12 »

cglan wrote: post #66

My general opinion as a young adult is that both the design of our cities and suburbs (making general hanging out a huge chore) and the past two years which have forced many people to be anti social have been devastating. The most social times for me are always when my friends are easily accessible through walking. These days getting people to come over is so difficult and the lack of good public transit options make…

...This included 61% of young people aged 18-25 and 51% of mothers with young children.

Going from college, surrounded by people looking to socialize, to who-knows-what, is quite a transition. I bought my house near public transit options and within walking distance of entertainment/recreation options on purpose. I know that's not always easy to find, but like you say, a significant part of this is a policy choice, not just because of public transportation, but zoning could play a part in it as well. The city I live in has since given grants to businesses building along public transit routes and it is having a positive effect on people being out and about.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#106

Post by vorpalhex »

0des wrote: post #33

We are victims of our own comfort. It's easier to stay home in our filter bubbles unchallenged. People don't know how to socialize these days, it's easier to flick idly through facebook. Awkward conversations with strangers don't happen anymore, because the second a familiar conversation with the bartender ends, everyone reaches into their pockets and retreats back into their digital security blankets. Try having a c…

As a youth, I remember being strongly instilled that neither politics nor religion were appropriate topics for "polite conversation". Instead you generally talked hobbies, plans, family, etc.

Conversations are a bit of a puzzle. You are trying to identify the overlap of two parties interests.

Now I see a lot of people who start right out of the gate with politics and immediately become hostile when you disagree on some small element. I don't even mind politics or political debate, but political opinions aren't a substitute for personality.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#107

Post by BeaverFirewall6 »

mellavora wrote: post #103
panaffa wrote: post #49

I'm a young GenZ adult. Just woke up and got depressed seeing this headline because it reinforces what I've experienced & felt. Loneliness is inherent to the human body and soul (unless perhaps we get Neuralink or AI friends someday). I am deeply sad over all the social fantasies I never had and probably never will now that I'm a working adult.

Hey, you have my sympathy and understanding. And I've certainly been through some dark times mentally, and those often had strong elements of loneliness -- the kind that people say they 'battled my way through' as if fighting your self gets you anywhere and also assuming that it is somehow wrong or unacceptable to be in a dark place, i.e. it must be battled, or that the battling is what gets you to a different mental…

Certainly. I do have friends and family who show me love, and I try to do the same. We're all inconsistent and imperfect in showing this love, and that is okay, but I think part of the problem is that our current way of life almost sociopathically doesn't value exploring and expressing love between ourselves, especially between strangers. Not sure whether there should be any cause for optimism that this societal structure will change soon.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#108

Post by basisword »

jbrun wrote: post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

I think once you get out of the habit of these things, and there is nothing forcing you to do them, they’re difficult to find the motivation for even if you know they might be good for you. I know for a fact I would be happier if I went into the office every day (but still had the flexibility to work remotely in situations where that was necessary). But despite this I can’t find the motivation to go. The carrot doesn’t work, I need the stick - but it no longer exists.

I think tackling loneliness is like most other things that are good for you (eating healthy, exercising, budgeting) - they’re hard to do even though you know they’re good and they’re relatively simple.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#109

Post by ericmcer »

0des wrote: post #33

We are victims of our own comfort. It's easier to stay home in our filter bubbles unchallenged. People don't know how to socialize these days, it's easier to flick idly through facebook. Awkward conversations with strangers don't happen anymore, because the second a familiar conversation with the bartender ends, everyone reaches into their pockets and retreats back into their digital security blankets. Try having a c…

Yeah people seem to blame this on housing, the economy, etc. but the reality is we can squeeze just enough satisfaction from streaming, internet and video games to keep us going. The second you cut that off people will emerge again. It is also annoying to me when people claim they are fine being "alone" but then sit in front of a screen for 10 hours a day. Watching an entire Netflix series alone in one weekend doesn't show some kind of zen level of self-contentedness.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#110

Post by kordlessagain »

jbrun wrote: post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

There’s another way to get over being lonely and that’s to be ok being alone for stretches of time. It can be recharging, for some.
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