Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#101

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 8:17 AM UTC

cgio wrote: post #100

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a good-faith request for a scientific investigation. Australia's Prime Minister demanded that investigators with powers like "weapons inspectors" be sent into China, and the Australian government was promoting the lab-leak conspiracy theory in the background. If Morrison just wanted a scientific investigation, publicly declaring that China should be given the Iraqi-WMD-inspection treatment would not be the…

The lab leak was a conspiracy theory back then, not anymore is my understanding based on scientific consensus, just a less probable explanation. Regardless, punitive measures are punitive and demands for culling freedom of press are not aligned with respecting the culture of other countries. What that has to do with reopening or Trump’s positions is not clear. Apparently inspectors did eventually go with a lighter tr…

The lab-leak theory has never had any significant support in the scientific community, and over time, every new piece of evidence has even more heavily favored the scientific consensus that SARS-CoV-2 emerged naturally. For example, French researchers have discovered a virus circulating in bats in Laos that is closer to SARS-CoV-2 than anything the Wuhan Institute of Virology had. That alone is basically a 100% refutation of the conspiracy theories about the lab.

> What that has to do with reopening or Trump’s positions is not clear

Australia is a US ally, and has increasingly aligned itself with the US' more aggressive position towards China over the last few years. It's not a coincidence that Trump and Morrison began attacking China over coronavirus at the same time.

> Apparently inspectors did eventually go with a lighter treatment and rights and they did not end up with any results.

The WHO team put together one of the most informative reports yet on the origins on SARS-CoV-2. The actual contents of their report were almost completely ignored in US media, though, which was intensely focused on pushing the lab-leak theory and disappointed that the WHO report found it extremely unlikely. If you watch the press conference announcing the results, it's almost comical how the US journalists were completely uninterested in anything the researchers were saying and kept asking about the lab.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#102

Post by philliphaydon » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 9:57 AM UTC

russli1993 wrote: post #62

dadarecit wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t about racism or xenophobia. This about collectively applying pressure on China, and, more importantly, standing by your ideals. We don’t conduct business with corrupt organizations, and by definition any Chinese company is an organization that is tightly tied to one of worst, scariest regimes that the world ever saw. And remember - it’s never “just business”, not unless you’re a completely corrupt psychopa…

Fuck all Chinese people right? They shouldn't able to bring food to the table, they shouldn't live right? Here is my perspective as a Chinese national. I agree the peng shuai case is terrible and I support WTA actions. But I also realize how much Chinese government's actions have transformed people's lives in the country for much much better. I wonder if you have knowledge of the culture, history and the perspectives…

> I also want to say the vast majority of news about China is extremely biased and a lot of them are absolutely false.

The majority of news from China about the west is biased and absolutely false. More often than not the west gives China the benefit of the doubt.

Look at the seasonal flu, we know China does not report deaths as 'died of X bought on by Influenza', they are 'died of X'. As a result China's seasonal flu statistics are crazy low. In 2016 it was reported they had 56 deaths, 2017 had 41 deaths, and 144 in 2018. In comparison the US had 23,000, 38,000, and 52,000.

Knowing that they report COVID the same way we know that China's numbers for COVID are more or less a lie.

> Poverty alleviation

Local governments and village leaders have a system to seek money from the central government to be distributed. However there's been reports over the years of families being allocated a fraction of the money and forced to sign the forms declaring they recieved the money, while the money is kept by the distributor.

So alot of rural area's people still live in poverty, but on paper they aren't. So you have to take the governments word with a grain of salt.

> The issue is about labeling an entire group of people and saying they are evil or against my way of life and my ideals

Most people who say they hate China, don't hate china, they hate the CCP.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#103

Post by cgio » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #101

cgio wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lab leak was a conspiracy theory back then, not anymore is my understanding based on scientific consensus, just a less probable explanation. Regardless, punitive measures are punitive and demands for culling freedom of press are not aligned with respecting the culture of other countries. What that has to do with reopening or Trump’s positions is not clear. Apparently inspectors did eventually go with a lighter tr…

The lab-leak theory has never had any significant support in the scientific community, and over time, every new piece of evidence has even more heavily favored the scientific consensus that SARS-CoV-2 emerged naturally. For example, French researchers have discovered a virus circulating in bats in Laos that is closer to SARS-CoV-2 than anything the Wuhan Institute of Virology had. That alone is basically a 100% refut…

I feel like you miss the key argument and context here, I.e. impact of government decisions on population. I am assuming you are of the opinion that this is a non issue, and I am fine with any opinion, as long as it is applied consistently. In this context, you cannot issue pleas for people on the one side and blame countries on the other.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#104

Post by sofixa » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

dadarecit wrote: post #20

sofixa wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey now, no need to be racist/xenophobic about it. The Chinese government is a terrible regime that commits many atrocities. But China has more than a billion people, most of whom do nothing morally wrong beside being complicit to the regime's crimes by inaction. And as we've seen time and again, that's just what regular people do and will do, as long as their lives aren't getting worse ( e.g. Nazi Germany). Most peo…

This isn’t about racism or xenophobia. This about collectively applying pressure on China, and, more importantly, standing by your ideals. We don’t conduct business with corrupt organizations, and by definition any Chinese company is an organization that is tightly tied to one of worst, scariest regimes that the world ever saw. And remember - it’s never “just business”, not unless you’re a completely corrupt psychopa…

The person i'm responding to literally said, and i'm quoting:

> Good, fuck China and everything about it.

That's pretty much racism and/or xenophobia.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#105

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

cgio wrote: post #103

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lab-leak theory has never had any significant support in the scientific community, and over time, every new piece of evidence has even more heavily favored the scientific consensus that SARS-CoV-2 emerged naturally. For example, French researchers have discovered a virus circulating in bats in Laos that is closer to SARS-CoV-2 than anything the Wuhan Institute of Virology had. That alone is basically a 100% refut…

I feel like you miss the key argument and context here, I.e. impact of government decisions on population. I am assuming you are of the opinion that this is a non issue, and I am fine with any opinion, as long as it is applied consistently. In this context, you cannot issue pleas for people on the one side and blame countries on the other.

I don't this this is a symmetric relationship. Since Trump can't into office, the US has taken an extremely aggressive stance towards China and has sought to intensify the conflict over a whole range of areas (initiating the trade war, making wild accusations of genocide, moving towards recognition of Taiwan, pushing conspiracy theories about CoVID-19), while China has tried to avoid escalation and has almost never gone beyond reciprocal actions. Australia has aligned itself fully with the US in most of these actions, leading the charge against Huawei, funding a prominent think tank that churns out anti-Chinese propaganda, pushing the lab-leak conspiracy theory, inserting itself into disputes in the South China Sea, etc.

I think there's a clear aggressor in this situation. The US believes that China is a threat to the unipolar order that has prevailed since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and has embarked on a confrontational policy towards China. Australia, caught between its military ally and its top economic partner, has decided to throw itself entirely behind its military ally.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#106

Post by cgio » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #105

cgio wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you miss the key argument and context here, I.e. impact of government decisions on population. I am assuming you are of the opinion that this is a non issue, and I am fine with any opinion, as long as it is applied consistently. In this context, you cannot issue pleas for people on the one side and blame countries on the other.

I don't this this is a symmetric relationship. Since Trump can't into office, the US has taken an extremely aggressive stance towards China and has sought to intensify the conflict over a whole range of areas (initiating the trade war, making wild accusations of genocide, moving towards recognition of Taiwan, pushing conspiracy theories about CoVID-19), while China has tried to avoid escalation and has almost never g…

Thank you, we agree not on opinions, but on concepts. That was my argument even if not perfectly articulated, I,e. That this is what you call above a symmetric relationship, and unfortunately humanitarian pleas will take the back seat from both sides and also there will be reluctance to find common ground, I.e. I cannot deny I view your individual positions as extremely disagreeable, that’s a sign of directionality.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#107

Post by hker » Sat, Dec 04, 2021, 5:56 AM UTC

maccolgan wrote: post #97

hker wrote: post #9

Both Billie Jean King, the founder of WTA, and Novak Djokovic support WTA’s announcement [1]. “I applaud Steve Simon and the WTA leadership for taking a strong stand on defending human rights in China and around the world,” said Billie Jean King. “The WTA is on the right side of history in supporting our players. This is another reason why women’s tennis is the leader in women’s sports.” Novak Djokovic, World No 1 an…

Is it just me or I don't see the correlation between WTA and human rights? Do they have a horse in this race?

Even IOC calls the Peng Shuai situation ‘humanitarian matters’ that they would proceed with “quiet diplomacy” [1]. Short of calling this a hostage situation, this is definitely not normal.

[1]: https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-statement-on-the-situation...

IOC is the only entity outside China which contacted Peng Shuai, whose external communication is under heavy control by China, so it may be harder for others to see what is going on.

Also, WTA is calling for an investigation into a #MeToo, which arguably falls under human rights.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#108

Post by thewileyone » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 7:58 AM UTC

dadarecit wrote: post #20

sofixa wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey now, no need to be racist/xenophobic about it. The Chinese government is a terrible regime that commits many atrocities. But China has more than a billion people, most of whom do nothing morally wrong beside being complicit to the regime's crimes by inaction. And as we've seen time and again, that's just what regular people do and will do, as long as their lives aren't getting worse ( e.g. Nazi Germany). Most peo…

This isn’t about racism or xenophobia. This about collectively applying pressure on China, and, more importantly, standing by your ideals. We don’t conduct business with corrupt organizations, and by definition any Chinese company is an organization that is tightly tied to one of worst, scariest regimes that the world ever saw. And remember - it’s never “just business”, not unless you’re a completely corrupt psychopa…

"We don’t conduct business with corrupt organizations ... " ... Seriously do you even know your own government and politicians???

There is no single nation that can stand on a pedestal and declare that they never work with a corrupt politician, nation or corporation. Not one. If they do, they're lying.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#109

Post by thewileyone » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 8:00 AM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #102

russli1993 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck all Chinese people right? They shouldn't able to bring food to the table, they shouldn't live right? Here is my perspective as a Chinese national. I agree the peng shuai case is terrible and I support WTA actions. But I also realize how much Chinese government's actions have transformed people's lives in the country for much much better. I wonder if you have knowledge of the culture, history and the perspectives…

> I also want to say the vast majority of news about China is extremely biased and a lot of them are absolutely false. The majority of news from China about the west is biased and absolutely false. More often than not the west gives China the benefit of the doubt. Look at the seasonal flu, we know China does not report deaths as 'died of X bought on by Influenza', they are 'died of X'. As a result China's seasonal fl…

"Most people who say they hate China, don't hate china, they hate the CCP. " -- Most Americans consider Chinese people as the CCP.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#110

Post by thewileyone » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 8:08 AM UTC

dadarecit wrote: post #29

necovek wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's been at the receiving end of "applying pressure" (sanctions and bombing), it effectively did nothing to harm those in power, but instead only made innocent people suffer even more. "Ideals" are not a constant, and each and everyone has their own. There are values we should strive to protect, but disenfranchising whole nation for the minority (not that long ago, USA had a minority government when it c…

What is this moral relativism? If you want to live in a world where disappearing people for speaking up, heavy handed state censorship and social credit score are all common practices - I suggest you buy one way ticket to China. It’s easy to talk all of this “liberal” bs while sipping your latte at your local Starbucks, but when it comes down to it you know very well what is right and what is wrong: you make the dist…

Hmmm, disappearing people? Guantanamo Bay and other CIA black sites. State censorship? Gary Webb. Social credit score? Okay, you got me but the no-fly list is similar.

My point is that everything the West accuses of China, has had a mirror event in the West already.

"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."