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Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

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Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#101

Post by dexwiz »

penjelly wrote: post #58
dexwiz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are building a platform for web dev, it’s better to be able to control your technology. Any change FB makes to React may leave you scrambling to patch your tech. Or What if one day FB decides to stop supporting React, or they make a design decision incompatible with your business? While it sounds unlikely, it’s bitter pill to swallow from a business angle.

react is used so many places professionally that i think someone would just fork or remake react from scratch if they ever did that.

And then you would probably be forced to support classic FB React for customers that didn't want to migrate, and forked React.

The real issue is if you build any special sauce on top of React. Say you went all in on providing a customized React.Component that worked like a React.Component, but had your platform's logging, perf metrics, etc built in. Then React comes out with hooks and functional components and then you are stuck trying to reimplement your special sauce using these. Or you have to tell customers, "we only support class based components." While functional components are old, FB has shown it will introduce paradigm changes into React, and you are left holding the bag when it comes to supporting them in your platform. And if customers saw a new React feature previewed yesterday, be sure they will be asking for support for it today. FB isn't likely to hand over React to Apache or any sort of open governance model, so changes can be easily made without a huge amount of forewarning, or even a business relationship. Last time I checked FB wasn't selling support contracts or partnerships for React.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#102

Post by rce »

WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #39

Cloudflare will regret not having a developer go-to framework for their advanced Worker stuff one day. I think they are waiting for someone else to build for it which is IMO the completely wrong approach for the dream of the serverless app. You got to own the full stack including software. I can easily see Vercel becoming the pretty much only go-to in this space just from the developer trust they have created with Ne…

SvelteKit has an out-of-the-box adapter for Cloudflare workers: https://github.com/sveltejs/kit/tree/master/packages/adapter...

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#103

Post by WORMS_EAT_WORMS »

rce wrote: post #102
WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #39

Cloudflare will regret not having a developer go-to framework for their advanced Worker stuff one day. I think they are waiting for someone else to build for it which is IMO the completely wrong approach for the dream of the serverless app. You got to own the full stack including software. I can easily see Vercel becoming the pretty much only go-to in this space just from the developer trust they have created with Ne…

SvelteKit has an out-of-the-box adapter for Cloudflare workers: https://github.com/sveltejs/kit/tree/master/packages/adapter...

This is kind of exactly my point in not owning the full stack with Serverless.

I'd be a bit nervous right now if I built my business / app on that.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#104

Post by deltron3030 »

admn2 wrote: post #66
systemvoltage wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I predict that Cloudflare will acquire Vercel one day.

I do think it's interesting how they've positioned Cloudflare Pages. Kind of an "Amazon" move. Unlimited bandwidth and seats. Will be interesting to see though if it works for Cloudflare, they still don't even have Gitlab integration.

The 25mb limit in folder size isn't enough for mid-sized blog though, even if you host the images somewhere else.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#105

Post by lioeters »

romero-jk wrote: post #36
systemvoltage wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Vue because I come from a bygone era of HTML + sprinkling jQuery as needed. 99% of the websites don't need a full blown JS frontend but everyone is doing it, I must be wrong.

You can "sprinkle" react too

Yup: https://reactjs.org/docs/add-react-to-a-website.html

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#106

Post by _puk »

This is absolutely fantastic news!

I love Svelte, and have been using it for a year or so now, but lack of community mindshare means that I've had to roll a lot of my own components.

That said, I think Netlify missed the boat on this one - happily using Netlify with Sveltekit, and it would have been great to have the competition in the PaaS space.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#107

Post by benmccann »

tekkk wrote: post #29

Wow, this should be great news for Svelte and SvelteKit! Hopefully with Vercel's backing these projects will fly off. Having worked with React for about 5 years (with a project in Vue in-between) and now having dabbled with Svelte, there is just something more appealing working with less higher-level abstractions. Sure with large apps React does have its benefits and its ecosystem is larger by a good amount. But ther…

> Fixing dev server errors is a little distracting at times

You will be very pleased with the upcoming release of Vite 2.7! It's by far the most impactful release of Vite thus far for SvelteKit. All the major known issues we've been tracking have been addressed in the latest Vite 2.7 beta (assuming that one of the PRs we're still working out the kinks of doesn't get rolled back, but either way it'll be a huge improvement!)

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#108

Post by _benj »

leerob wrote: post #19
gavinray wrote: post #15

Well, this is awesome -- but fuck me: Vue is the only major player not under the Vercel umbrella now, haha. Looks like I might have to phone in half a decade of experience. Svelte is close enough to Vue with "script setup" mode anyways, the major difference is whether your logic/keywords go INSIDE the HTML tags or OUTSIDE. Svelte doesn't support JSX/TSX though =(

Lee from Vercel here. The governance of Svelte isn't changing – it's still the same independent, open-source project and community. We're just supporting Rich and helping the project grow!

Glad to see you here Lee!

> We're just supporting Rich and helping the project grow!

I'll admit that I have a negative bias towards this... in spite of Basecamp+RoR, Mozilla+Rust, or all the great OSS HashiCorp makes, it's still hard for me to believe that business do anything out of the goodness of their heart.

Is there a strategic goal for hiring Rich? is it that Svelte is used so much in house that it only made sense to support it? Is it to get more cred with developer by supporting projects they love?

Again, sorry if this question is to skeptic and cynical... I love to be wrong on this! :)

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#109

Post by tuan »

jitl wrote: post #75
didip wrote: post #64

Can someone teach me how Svelte does what it does? The front page is not telling me much? How does it "surgically" update the DOM? Why is it better than virtual DOM?

When your React component renders, it returns an object that describes the desired state of the component tree. Take this component: function MyComponent() { return Here's bold text } At runtime, React calls your component function and then applies the returned data to the DOM imperatively. If your component has rendered before, React needs to _diff_ the virtual DOM your latest render returned against the VDOM React…

So it sounds like the tradeoff here is that the generated bundle is more complicated/bigger. I'm not familiar with Svelt, but wondering about bundle size + debuggability.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#110

Post by midrus »

penjelly wrote: post #63

i just started rebuilding my personal site with nextjs but the enthusiasm here is pushing me to try svelte for the first time.. guess ill have to take a look at the feature list

It is really worth it. Svelte is sooooo much better than React. Believe me, I was one of the skepticals about the entire SPA thing but after trying Svelte I think my problem was with React, not with the concept per se.
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