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Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

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Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#101

Post by bawolff »

VictorPath wrote: post #93
bawolff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how people can think Israel mass bombed gaza. Israel has one of the largest militaries in the world. If they decided to mass bomb somewhere, it wouldn't be a place anymore. Its not the 1800s. A mass bombing is not something anyone walks away from in the modern world.

Israel launched over 900 attacks on Gaza in May, killed hundreds of Palestinians, and displaced tens of thousands of Palestinians. The UN estimate is 461 housing and commercial units were destroyed by Israel's bombing of Gaza. I don't dispute even more could have been killed by Israel and more destroyed by Israel if the United Nations Security Council did not call for an ending to it and that if that did not happen "…

I'm not saying there wasn't an armed conflict or that people didn't die. Just when people say something was mass bombed it implies something very different.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#102

Post by vadfa »

pron wrote: post #70
Leparamour wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you would if you don't rely on vulgarism, so please shoot. Define vulgarism in this context? The non-PC answer would be ethnic nepotism and corrupting influence through AIPAC and ADL. Jews are heavily overrepresented throughout every circle of power and influence (media, academia, business, politics) and trying to reign in Israel would mean going against that entrenched jewish power block which any pr…

White men are also overrepresented throughout every circle of power and influence in America (and their corrupting ethnic nepotism is well-established), and Jewish people don't use whatever power they have any more than any other ethnic, social, or religious group. Just a reminder, antisemitism is the belief that "the Jews" secretly pull the levers of power: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Definition

>White men are also overrepresented throughout every circle of power and influence in America

In terms of % of population, no they are generally not. Jews are.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#103

Post by bawolff »

joelbluminator wrote: post #90
bawolff wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geopolitically they both hate iran. Culturally both are fairly similar - both are "western"-style democracies (e.g. representative democracies with constitutions that value rule of law, independent judiciary, etc) And, the following might be controversial - but many of americas strategic allies do much worse shit than israel, they just get called out on it less. Hell, Saudi arabia is literally murdering people in emb…

Israel would have had zero issues with Iran if Iran wasn't on a quest to destroy Israel. In fact the two had normal relations until the Iranian Islamic revolution.

Ultimately the reasons why israel and iran are at odds don't matter much. Both are competiting to be regional powers in the middle east, and its the lines which alliances are being drawn around.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#104

Post by boomboomsubban »

bawolff wrote: post #86
boomboomsubban wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel most likely.

This type of analysis is kind of hard, because you could also say that Israel's enemies would benefit a lot from this sort of thing being discovered.

If your goal is to hurt Israel, I doubt you would give money to the NSO Group to spy on Palestinian human rights defenders in the hopes that some day their targets list becomes public. As if that violation of Palestinian rights would suddenly turn people against Israel.

And if it's their enemies are behind the hack and then are adding false information to hurt Israel, there are so many better targets. Any US journalist critical of Israel for example.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#105

Post by raxxorrax »

vadfa wrote: post #94
raxxorrax wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered who nibbled off the foreskins of Americans... But seriously, I somehow expected such an answer and I believe it to be heavily misinformed. It is the old formula, Jews are somehow responsible for it all. Can you give an example for a policy or public influence that was made in favor of Jews? I find them often very disagreeable. 2 Jews in a room can net you 5 different opinions. That is just a stereot…

I can show you lots of policies that were made against whites.

I assure you that there are Jews that are very critical with the recent focus on skin color, quotas for access to education and narratives surrounding white people being the root of evil. There are Jews that support them too, sure, but just as many or probably even more white people do so.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#106

Post by justin66 »

guerrilla wrote: post #14
DeathArrow wrote: post #2

Can someone explain the strong ties between US and Israel, and why US stands behind Israel, no matter what?

Less true today, but historically: “Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security.” — Alexander Haig (former Secretary of State under Reagan and four-star general.) Today they have a lot of common economic interests and trade, similar to a European country.

> “Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world

Alexander "I am in control here" Haig made that statement prior to witnessing Desert Storm and the three decades of conflict to follow. The thing that makes that statement ironic is that we can't really fly much from there, and at times had to actively lobby Israel not to fly attack missions in their own self-defense, because doing so would alienate our other allies in the region.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#107

Post by DSingularity »

Quanttek wrote: post #57
Vervious wrote: post #13

To be fair, it is quite murky to what extent groups like Al-Haq are associated with the PFLP (which, with its history of aircraft hijackings and suicide bombings, is undoubtedly a terrorist group). There is plenty of purported evidence of financial and personnel links out there, and I really doubt HN is the right forum to decide either way (unless someone is an expert).

This is undoubtedly false. Speaking of "purported evidence" when there is literally no credible evidence submitted by the Israeli government for these allegations is misleading at best. Their whole case rests on the testimony of two Palestinian accountants, likely attained by torture, that worked for two organizations that were not included in the list of six [1]. They merely state it is "general knowledge" that thes…

Israel, a country that terrorizes Palestinians on the daily accuses everyone that fights it as terrorists. Maybe some are, but I think our minds should be initialized to “given the terror you consciously and actively spread, please provide evidence for any terrorist accusations”.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#108

Post by q1w2 »

Quanttek wrote: post #57
Vervious wrote: post #13

To be fair, it is quite murky to what extent groups like Al-Haq are associated with the PFLP (which, with its history of aircraft hijackings and suicide bombings, is undoubtedly a terrorist group). There is plenty of purported evidence of financial and personnel links out there, and I really doubt HN is the right forum to decide either way (unless someone is an expert).

This is undoubtedly false. Speaking of "purported evidence" when there is literally no credible evidence submitted by the Israeli government for these allegations is misleading at best. Their whole case rests on the testimony of two Palestinian accountants, likely attained by torture, that worked for two organizations that were not included in the list of six [1]. They merely state it is "general knowledge" that thes…

Firstly, your source is incredibly biased - it is a Palestinian advocacy organization.

Secondly, you make the claim that they attained the evidence by torture - with no evidence of such.

The fact remains that two Palestinian accountants testified in court that these "charity" organizations were funneling money to the PFLP terrorist organization.

HRW and AI may not think that the evidence is strong enough, and maybe it isn't, but given the testimony, it seems much more reasonable that the Israeli gov't conduct espionage on them if they suspect there is possible terrorist financing happening.

Let's also remember that HRW and AI are hardly unbiased sources when it comes to the Israel/Palestine conflict. They have both repeatedly taken sides in that conflict.

This also wouldn't be the first case of a "human rights" organization in the middle east being used to funnel money that ends up in the hands of terrorists, so I think espionage on these organizations should be expected, and is likely ubiquitous, whether they use NSO tools or not.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#109

Post by joelbluminator »

bawolff wrote: post #103
joelbluminator wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel would have had zero issues with Iran if Iran wasn't on a quest to destroy Israel. In fact the two had normal relations until the Iranian Islamic revolution.

Ultimately the reasons why israel and iran are at odds don't matter much. Both are competiting to be regional powers in the middle east, and its the lines which alliances are being drawn around.

Don't matter to you maybe ... to many people finding reason is important.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#110

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

pythonlion wrote: post #98
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a loaded and defensive question that tries to broaden the scope of the allegation to something obviously wrong. Obviously everything the EU does isn’t automatically right because it’s the EU. But maybe if multiple reputable human rights organizations are condemning allegations of a country as baseless and part of ongoing human rights violations then maybe that specific thing is a correct statement of…

or maybe its conflict of interests. I'm not talking of the general situation but about this action by Israel government and the response. And this all human right groups are funded by the EU if its private or public it doesn't matter from the Israeli government perspective. Or maybe this groups doesn't know everything? why their members opinion is more accepted than the Israeli politicians who did that? some of them…

The fact based claim is that the Israel government haven’t provided evidence to their claims and therefore the claims are unsubstantiated. Any discussion of conspiracy can be put to rest with some proof.
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