> He blames San Francisco’s woes on a culture of permissive lawlessness and a mistaken view of what constitutes moral policymaking. A frequent critique of those that want to solve the homeless problem by sending in the police to crack heads and send everyone to prison. The main goal here of course being to ensure that the homeless "go away" somewhere out of view. In reality most of the "crimes" that people are wringi…
A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco
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Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
The author argues that housing prices are not a significant factor: "Throughout it, they emphasized that the homeless were just like you and me, just poorer. Today, many of California’s leading homelessness advocates insist that the current crisis is due mostly to the housing shortage. Homelessness experts and advocates disagree. 'I’ve rarely seen a normal able-bodied able-minded non-drug-using homeless person who’s…
> I’ve rarely seen a normal able-bodied able-minded non-drug-using homeless person who’s just down on their luck This right here. Nearly all homeless I've worked with were non-neuronormative and/or drug abusers. They're almost never just normal folks who have fallen on hard times. The reason they aren't rooming with a family member or friend is because their behavioral outbursts and/or stealing things to buy drugs ha…
Prior to about 2010, meth was manufactured in Mexico using high quality precursors. The government cracked down on imports, and cartels started using a much more dirty P2P manufacturing methods, which is anecdotally associated with vastly higher levels of disruptive psychosis.
He talked about it in an episode of Econ Talk.
https://www.econtalk.org/sam-quinones-on-meth-fentanyl-and-t...
Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Much better when the have-nots are out of sight
Unironically yes.
I was particularly shocked when I came to the US by the sheer amount of poverty, disparity, etc. But I recently realized that the situation might not be that much better in Europe, it's just that poverty and disparity is usually moved to the suburbs and less visible.
Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco
#104I wonder if this situation is intentionally maintained. Does anyone benefit from it?
* it's a hard problem to solve
* nobody wants to solve that problem
* it's a national crisis, not just an SF crisis
* people are incompetent and governments are slow to move (and rarely make use of data correctly)
* things generally tend to get better only after they get worse
Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco
#105Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco
#106> He blames San Francisco’s woes on a culture of permissive lawlessness and a mistaken view of what constitutes moral policymaking. A frequent critique of those that want to solve the homeless problem by sending in the police to crack heads and send everyone to prison. The main goal here of course being to ensure that the homeless "go away" somewhere out of view. In reality most of the "crimes" that people are wringi…
Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco
#107The book's author was recently on Joe Rogan where they discussed the book and many of the policies in SF. They discussed: de-criminalization, the "Portugal approach", progressive policies, policing, etc. Also the use of language such as "homeless camps" which envisages a camp of homeless people just trying to live. Versus the reality which when social workers and mayors (mayor of Denver) went into these camps underco…
Michael Shellenberger does not live in San Francisco, or at least he did not when he came in dead last in the 2016 governor election.
Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco
#108Sort of in topic, but as a resident of SF and an engineer: how can I help? Are there technical pain points that I could resolve with an app for free?
Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what should we do? Locking everyone up seems like it would be even more expensive with even worse long-term results.
I listened to part of the podcast and if I remember correctly his proposed solution is to offer treatment and housing, but it you don’t follow that road: prison. No idea if that’s a good idea, but living in SF I can definitely say that whatever the city, or even the US as a country, has been doing until now has been useless. Disclaimer: I used to live in Chicago, and while not as bad as sf, the homeless situation was…
In Chicago, drug addicts are transient-homeless. They're in and out of shelters as they get evicted or kicked out of a place, but they find somewhere new (indoors) to live. Some may be periodic homeless.
The chronic homeless in Chicago are usually physically and mentally disabled, and while they may drink, it's not substance abuse that keeps them from holding down a job and getting shelter.
One of the recent encampments we visited had an interesting story. It sits on what was the future site of a factory, and the group had all gathered there to work as labor for the construction. However, the builders found contaminated soil, and were working on a mitigation plan when covid hit, and these guys (and a few women) have been living there ever since. They recently called the police because someone who moved in to camp had stolen propane tanks from the neighborhood grills.
They're not all like that but it's a much different scene than a warm weather city's homeless camps. Edit: One thing that makes this plain is the lack of sharps in the chicago homeless camps. Most of the time you won't see orange caps!
Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco
#110Sort of in topic, but as a resident of SF and an engineer: how can I help? Are there technical pain points that I could resolve with an app for free?