Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis

#101

Post by Sparkle-san » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

digikata wrote: post #43

Why isn't the solution to put empty containers back on unloaded ships to be sent away? BTW for fun reading on operations logistics and identifying and attacking bottlenecks see "The Goal" by Eli Goldratt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goal_%28novel%29

They've been doing more of that recently actually and it's causing some other effects. American soybean farmers would rely on those empty containers coming by rail for their exporting chain, but that's no longer happening.

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/23/1019496567/farmers-have-a-big...

Re: Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis

#102

Post by sparky_z » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:46 AM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #6

There's some good stuff in here, but also some bad ideas. The bad ones: - Bring the military and National Guard container chassis to relieve the ports. That works, unless there's a situation where the military or National Guard need them , in which case it could be catastrophic. - Force railroads to haul to this one particular new site. First, I kind of bristle at the word "force". That's not how it works in a free c…

In this example, the containers weren't bound for Dallas, the trains were. They're being commandeered from their normal route to move the containers to a new pickup point where the trucks will get them.

Re: Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis

#103

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

cr1895 wrote: post #18

kmlx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this not a major talking point? because we live in a globalised world. your phone would cost 10x what it costs now if you moved production to the US. that would mean lots of people without phones, so a much smaller economy. no one wants that. > Americans have been polled ah, polls :) > across the aisle people prefer made in the USA as a European, i have always associated American made with low quality, cheap…

> as a European, i have always associated American made with low quality, cheaply made, bad taste and expensive. American products are to be avoided at all times. What informs that viewpoint? It’s really foreign to any perception I’ve ever heard from anyone or experienced myself.

[deleted]

Re: Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis

#104

Post by afuchs » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

hammock wrote: post #55

remarkEon wrote: post #2

I'm not sure I agree with the conclusions in this thread. >It seems that everyone now agrees that the bottleneck is yard space at the container terminals. The terminals are simply overflowing with containers, which means they no longer have space to take in new containers either from ships or land. It’s a true traffic jam This seems like definitely not the real bottleneck. You have to ask yourself, "why is there no s…

Owner-operators are actually not completely allowed in California. And trucks for the most part must be very new to comply with California emissions requirements. The "labor shortage" is in part aggravated by these regulations. >Danielle Inman, a spokesperson for the National Retail Foundation, which has lobbied for California to overturn AB 5, told PolitiFact that the state’s regulations on trucking impact the avail…

> Owner-operators are actually not completely allowed in California. And trucks for the most part must be very new to comply with California emissions requirements. The "labor shortage" is in part aggravated by these regulations. ...

Both of these claims have been disputed by fact checking organizations: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/19/facebook-p...

Re: Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis

#105

Post by bsder » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

riskneutral wrote: post #42

bsder wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm, then pay some truckers to haul empty containers to some space in the middle of Arizona, Nevada, Texas, Idaho, Iowa, etc.? If the problem is empties clogging things up, move the empties. America isn't exactly short of empty space without zoning restrictions. In a week, the yards will be empty. This seems like a problem that money can solve. The fact that money isn't solving it is extremely suspicious. Either it m…

> Erm, then pay some truckers to haul empty containers to some space in the middle of Arizona, Nevada, Texas, Idaho, Iowa, etc.? The empty containers don't need to be trucked to Arizona, they need to be shipped back to China so that they can be filled with more goods and shipped back to LA. There are fewer goods flowing from the US to China though, so they are piling up in LA. Either the price of shipping from US to…

> Either the price of shipping from US to China has to fall so much that it becomes profitable to ship all these containers back completely empty, or the government has to subsidize the shipping cost

What's happening is that everybody is playing chicken waiting for somebody else to blink and foot the bill for the fact that everything is out of whack. Why should the government break this logjam instead of the companies that sucked up all the profits over decades from this arrangement?

Since nobody is going to risk spending money, breaking the logjam, and then having their competitor who isn't spending the money benefit, they would rather all hit the wall simultaneously. Fine. But don't come whining to the electorate and elected representatives to fix problems that corporations, themselves created when it bites them in the shorts.

Spend some of those record profits, assholes, and the problems will get fixed.

Socialism for the rich; capitalism for the poor. Same old, same old.

Re: Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis

#106

Post by DaveExeter » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

jdkee wrote: post #94

DaveExeter wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The moment the suppliers can set up their own shop or sell enough IP to local rivals, they will be able to sell the identical good for $150... That's what I am looking forward to! What is so special about manufacturing? What would be wrong with assembly-line workers going the way of farm workers? 14 million farm workers in 1910. 3 million today. Tragedy? https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Farm_Labor/fl_frmw..…

And what would you suggest those workers learn to do that could substitute for manufacturing job wages?

I think there has been more a winding-down of manufacturing jobs, not an abrupt cutoff.

Re: Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis

#107

Post by thephyber » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #35

spiffytech wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why don't you have enough trucks? This is addressed later in the thread. Normally, many trucks haul containers to their destination, unload the container, then return it empty to the port, pull it off the trailer, and haul away another loaded container. But the port is too full to accept empty containers, and zoning laws mean truck companies have already maxed out their own container holding areas. This leaves enor…

Erm, then pay some truckers to haul empty containers to some space in the middle of Arizona, Nevada, Texas, Idaho, Iowa, etc.? If the problem is empties clogging things up, move the empties. America isn't exactly short of empty space without zoning restrictions. In a week, the yards will be empty. This seems like a problem that money can solve. The fact that money isn't solving it is extremely suspicious. Either it m…

This was already one Rx from the Twitter thread.

Also not all “capitalists” have aligned incentives. Everybody wants shipping to be efficient except those who profit from this inefficiency.

Specifically ship companies are making huge profits by racing to the big East Asian ports right now. So much profit that they don’t want their ships to wait in US ports for empty containers to reload. This asymmetry makes it even more profitable to rush back to those East Asian ports. Snowball of profits for them at the expense of everyone else.

This is a Tragedy of the Commons situation. It is a great purpose for government intervention.

Re: Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis

#108

Post by sjg007 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:55 AM UTC

fny wrote: post #97

drcode wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to me that thousands of people work at the docks or with the trucks, and likely understand these problems quite well, but only after a silicon valley guy rented a boat to take a look and tweeted about it did it come to attention of the larger world. Is it just that these other people don't want to "rock the boat" at their place of employment?

I guess you've never been paid some low multiple of minimum wage. You have no incentive to make anything efficient.

Longshoremen make a lot of money!

Re: Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis

#109

Post by ameister14 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:56 AM UTC

hammock wrote: post #50

spiffytech wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why don't you have enough trucks? This is addressed later in the thread. Normally, many trucks haul containers to their destination, unload the container, then return it empty to the port, pull it off the trailer, and haul away another loaded container. But the port is too full to accept empty containers, and zoning laws mean truck companies have already maxed out their own container holding areas. This leaves enor…

Why does the empty container have to be taken back to long Beach? Couldn't it be taken literally anywhere else?

Because the container isn't owned by the trucking company. If you have a contract to take the container to a particular place only, you risk breach doing otherwise; plus think about it, if you want the trucking company to rent or purchase more space to store the containers, that's a major cost increase you're putting on them and they'd have to modify a ton of contracts to get paid there

Re: Flexport CEO on how to fix the US supply chain crisis

#110

Post by AnimalMuppet » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:57 AM UTC

sparky_z wrote: post #102

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #6

There's some good stuff in here, but also some bad ideas. The bad ones: - Bring the military and National Guard container chassis to relieve the ports. That works, unless there's a situation where the military or National Guard need them , in which case it could be catastrophic. - Force railroads to haul to this one particular new site. First, I kind of bristle at the word "force". That's not how it works in a free c…

In this example, the containers weren't bound for Dallas, the trains were. They're being commandeered from their normal route to move the containers to a new pickup point where the trucks will get them.

That's backwards. The issue is the chassis/trailer, right? Use the trucks to take the containers to the AFB, and use the trains to take them from there to Dallas. A truck (and chassis/trailer) can make two or three trips a day from LA/LB to the AFB. Or, it can take two or three days to take one container to Dallas.