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India Counting Down to 1B Doses

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Re: India Counting Down to 1B Doses

#101
post #100
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work so well for muslims in India... https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/21/india-muslims-deported-... https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/india

I dont see why it is wrong to be deported if you illegally entered the country. Some may argue that it specifically deports muslims instead of Hindus. However, Hindus are liteally being lynched in each of the neighboring muslim majority countries (Pakistan, Bangladesh). It makes sense that India serves as the primary country to accept hindu refugees. The Indian refugee program also protects blaspheming muslims who ha…

They didn't enter illegally, please read up on the issue and this article as the countries didn't have borders until after independence so this has and many times this is because they don't have paperwork or proof even if they are from the region. It is an attempt by the government to remove poor Muslim populations from India and blatant religious persecution.

The current government in India is going from a democracy to a Hindu nationalist state.

Re: India Counting Down to 1B Doses

#102
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work so well for muslims in India... https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/21/india-muslims-deported-... https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/india

I think you may find that when illegal migrants get deported, the security of the nation improves... I live in Hyderabad, the place where the Dilsukhnagar blasts happened. Don't remember hearing of any major jihadist attacks on the past seven years or so... Success of a government no?

They are not illegal migrants, they are people who live there and don't have paperwork and are being pushed out by a Hindu nationalist led government.

If your definition of government success is a lack of terrorist attacks which are already insanely rare I fear for democracy wherever you live. People often trade security for freedom and find out the result of that decision far too late in the process.

Re: India Counting Down to 1B Doses

#103
post #97
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work so well for muslims in India... https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/21/india-muslims-deported-... https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/india

One has to start wondering why things don't work so well for Muslims anywhere in the world.

That is a very broad statement, what do you mean?

In India specifically they are a religious minority so there are some very troubling things happening by what looks to be a growing Hindu nationalist state that is tearing down a multi-religious and multi-cultural democracy.

Re: India Counting Down to 1B Doses

#104

Please note this is total doses, i.e., adding up people who've got the first dose and the second dose, so it's double-counting people who've got both. The more accurate number is 290 million, which is how many people have got both doses. Our population is 1.3 billion, so we're still a long way away. https://dashboard.cowin.gov.in/

It would be nice if every Indian managed to get vaccinated. And it's easy to get distracted by the observation that 290 million is smaller than a billion. But the important thing is that those 290 million are concentrated around urban areas. That goes a long way in breaking the chain. It's okay if logistics makes it very difficult to reach every remote rural place for now. We'll get there eventually.

Re: India Counting Down to 1B Doses

#105
post #101
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont see why it is wrong to be deported if you illegally entered the country. Some may argue that it specifically deports muslims instead of Hindus. However, Hindus are liteally being lynched in each of the neighboring muslim majority countries (Pakistan, Bangladesh). It makes sense that India serves as the primary country to accept hindu refugees. The Indian refugee program also protects blaspheming muslims who ha…

They didn't enter illegally, please read up on the issue and this article as the countries didn't have borders until after independence so this has and many times this is because they don't have paperwork or proof even if they are from the region. It is an attempt by the government to remove poor Muslim populations from India and blatant religious persecution. The current government in India is going from a democracy…

> countries didn't have borders until after independence

This only applies to anyone who entered after 1971, by when the borders were well established.

> attempt by the government to remove poor Muslim populations from India and blatant religious persecution

That is the allegation from the opposition. The current government denies that and only anyone who entered illegally after 1971 (in accordance with the assam accords) would not be granted full citizenship. It is hilarious that you consider this religious persecution, when the accusers themselves (The INC) were the ones that came up with this bell in the first place for Assam.

The act also does not allocate any special funding to deportation. This means that while some groups would have gotten citizenship, others would have remained just as illegal as they were before this.

There was a lot of misinformation around the act, but the idea that the entire muslim population without documentation would be deported was not just overblown, it was straight up lying.

Western establishment media loves to jump to conclusions on something that there was no indication would happen, and have continued attacking a strawman that has never existed.

> The current government in India is going from a democracy to a Hindu nationalist state.

There is zero indication that this is the case. The Modi Govt. is trying to actively privatize India and that goes actively against the RSS's isolationist ideals. This Govt. is giving opportunities to lower castes that the Congress would never even let stand among them. The party is not nepotistic and rewards grassroots merit instead of the monarchy that India has seen with the Gandhi family for 60 years. If anything, India is far more democratic today than ever.

As for the political power of Muslims, there is a huge caste issue within there that is not addressed at all. The majority of muslims in power are those that trace their roots to upper castes or timurid/persian/afghan invaders. They refer to themselves as Ashraf, and adopt a noticeably non-indic identity. They constitute 15% of all muslims in India, but control the vast vast majority of institutional power for muslims. On the other hand, the common folk who converted, also referred to as Pasmanda get zero representation despite constituting 85% of the population. [1] [2] [3]

Historically, the Congress has loved to give a lot of power to Ashraf Muslims. Modi has stopped giving them the time of day. That is true. IMO, it reflects the last cry of an old elite who have realized that there will be no more free lunch.

At the grass roots, Modi has actually increased funding towards poor muslims [4] and has maintained every special accomodation given to them throughout his term.

The CAA would have given much needed protections to hindu minorities across the border that are being mercilessly slaughtered by muslim fundamentalists that are far more radical than any form of Hindu fundamentalism that exists today. [5] [6]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8_6ryRZcU0

[2] https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-muslim-community-under-a-...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian...

[4] https://theprint.in/india/more-muslims-govt-scholarships-mod...

[5] https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/mob-bur...

[6] https://indianexpress.com/article/india/durga-puja-processio...

Re: India Counting Down to 1B Doses

#106
post #103
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One has to start wondering why things don't work so well for Muslims anywhere in the world.

That is a very broad statement, what do you mean? In India specifically they are a religious minority so there are some very troubling things happening by what looks to be a growing Hindu nationalist state that is tearing down a multi-religious and multi-cultural democracy.

> Hindu nationalist state that is tearing down a multi-religious and multi-cultural democracy.

India is "multi-religious" and "multi-cultural" because the Hindus are a peaceful people. They have rarely invaded foreign lands. Instead, they have accepted people from other religions as well as those who fled the persecutions at the hands of followers of Abrahamic religions and let them construct their places of worship.

You won't find a single Hindu temple in Mecca or Medina or Vatican City but you will find a million mosques and churches across India including in the holiest sites of Hinduism. But no good deed goes unpunished. And so the millennia-long persecution of Hindus, their traditions and their religion continues in their own lands.[1][2]

There is another component to this Hinduphobia which is anti-semitic at the same time, the Islamic eschatological prophecy of Ghazwa-e-Hind[3][4][5], wherein it is believed that an Army of Islam will start from Jerusalem in Palestine (which is, of course, under the illegal occupation of Israel), march upon and conquer Rome (Christianity). Once that is accomplished, a second Army will invade and conquer India, plunder its riches and drag its kings/leaders in chains to the Levant/Damascus. But this will only occur when the city where the Al-Aqsa Mosque is located is again under Islamic rule.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Bangladesh_communal_viole...

[3] What is Ghazwa-e-Hind? Exposing the evil doctrine to eliminate Hindus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jNBgRd5pCg)

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ghazwa-e-Hind&old...

[5] Ghazwa Al Hind/Pakistan, India and Kashmir, WW3 - Asrar Rashid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdgMTKHswIw)

Re: India Counting Down to 1B Doses

#107
post #105
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't enter illegally, please read up on the issue and this article as the countries didn't have borders until after independence so this has and many times this is because they don't have paperwork or proof even if they are from the region. It is an attempt by the government to remove poor Muslim populations from India and blatant religious persecution. The current government in India is going from a democracy…

> countries didn't have borders until after independence This only applies to anyone who entered after 1971, by when the borders were well established. > attempt by the government to remove poor Muslim populations from India and blatant religious persecution That is the allegation from the opposition. The current government denies that and only anyone who entered illegally after 1971 (in accordance with the assam acc…

It is pretty clear this is religious persecution by a majority government with Hindu nationalistic tendencies. Are they fully there yet? No, but the moves they are making are worrisome... democracy doesn't just end, it slowly exits the stage...

The articles you gave are:

1. A YouTube channel by a dude who makes his own podcast. Not backed by any real media organization.

2. The articles you quoted are all from sources in India, in many cases from quasi media organizations, and the stories you referenced have nothing to do with this. Obviously the Times Of India is a great media source compared to the others, but you linked to a story that has nothing to do with this.

Here are some to take a read that outline the issues and the reasons behind this law. From reputable media sources:

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/india-muslims-marginalized-...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/17/world/asia/india-assam-mu...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28940197#:~:text=https%...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/21/india-muslims-deported-...

You other mentions have no factual merit or sources and are sensationalized. One incident doesn't make a pattern or a trend or redemption.

Here are good sources from trusted media organizations on what is going on big picture as Modi and the party move India in a scary direction:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/13/modi-india-hindutva-hin...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-05/modi-s-go...

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/india-mo... \

I hope to see India as a democracy for a long time. Same goes for the USA as things are not looking good here either.

Re: India Counting Down to 1B Doses

#108

Modi govt gets a lot of hate in India but we should also give credit where it is due, like for this. An indecisive leader or one heading a coalition govt probably couldn't have done it like this.

He doesn't get hate in India, quite the opposite he has a large electoral mandate.

Re: India Counting Down to 1B Doses

#110
post #106
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very broad statement, what do you mean? In India specifically they are a religious minority so there are some very troubling things happening by what looks to be a growing Hindu nationalist state that is tearing down a multi-religious and multi-cultural democracy.

> Hindu nationalist state that is tearing down a multi-religious and multi-cultural democracy. India is "multi-religious" and "multi-cultural" because the Hindus are a peaceful people. They have rarely invaded foreign lands. Instead, they have accepted people from other religions as well as those who fled the persecutions at the hands of followers of Abrahamic religions and let them construct their places of worship.…

What is your point with this? That because other religions are bad, Hinduism should shift to that model? :)

I hope not, but I am not clear on what you mean here...

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