Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Balls

daringfireball.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 122 posts

Re: Balls

#101

Post by achompas »

tptacek wrote: post #96

I would be just fine with banning Daring Fireball from HN, if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias. Only on HN or Reddit is Gruber's pro-Apple stance not the most boring conceivable topic. It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart , as if it was faceted and nuanced. I myself love Daring Fireball,…

You're absolutely right. Gruber is an opinion guy at best (albeit a smart one), and his articles lack the type of technical analysis we ostensibly care about on HN. Then again, the front page is full of Techcrunch articles...

You want to analyze Gruber? Look at his writing style, which is clearly influenced by David Foster Wallace. He's a damn good writer! Otherwise, take him for what he is -- an Apple pundit with one part brilliance, two parts vitriol -- and stop worrying about what he said 6 months ago. Pundits reverse themselves constantly.

EDIT: I forgot to mention his taste for design and art. I'm more interested in his take on Kubrick's films than anything he writes about Apple.

Re: Balls

#102

Post by sudont »

tptacek wrote: post #96

I would be just fine with banning Daring Fireball from HN, if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias. Only on HN or Reddit is Gruber's pro-Apple stance not the most boring conceivable topic. It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart , as if it was faceted and nuanced. I myself love Daring Fireball,…

Ironically, he's a huge fan of the comments here:

"I’m continually impressed by the quality of the comment threads on Hacker News, for example."

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/06/16/powazek-comments

Re: Balls

#103

Post by joebadmo »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #99
tptacek wrote: post #96

I would be just fine with banning Daring Fireball from HN, if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias. Only on HN or Reddit is Gruber's pro-Apple stance not the most boring conceivable topic. It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart , as if it was faceted and nuanced. I myself love Daring Fireball,…

He seems like a good writer only if you're already under the RDF, otherwise he comes across as a shallow spin and mudslinging machine and defacto Apple PR. Example of a predictable and hypocritical post: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/08/15/apple-samsung-im... This is the reason for the disconnect between the HN commenters and the flame wars. It's just hard for people to understand others almost-bordering-on-r…

I'm an admitted Google fanboy, but I think Gruber (along with the other two, generally) is an excellent writer and analyst when he's writing about Apple unrelated to any other company. And since it's pretty undisputable that Apple is one of the most important companies in the world and such an anamoly in so many ways, I find it pretty important to read Gruber on the subject.

In fact, I often wish there was a writer with as aserbic a wit and as insightful an analytical mind on the subject of Google (Dan Lyons doesn't qualify, though fake Steve Jobs was pretty funny). Not for the apologia like this piece, but for when writers like Gruber, Marco, and especially John Siracusa are critical of their subject of obsession. The thing I love about Siracusa's podcast (Hypercritical) in particular is that you can really feel true, unadulterated, and unself-conscious devotion to the subject in the unchecked criticism he gives. And I wish that culture existed around Google.

There are plenty blogs that follow Google news in a sort of flat way (9to5google, GoogleOperatingSystem), and Danny Sullivan at SearchEngineLand provides analysis, but it's all on sort of a surface level. (And, Sullivan is great, but I wouldn't call him a great writer so much as a comprehensively knowledgeable one.)

Maybe what I really want is Steven Levy to write a blog for real.

(Note: I try to be the change I want to see in the world, but I don't have the talent, sources, or time to write as well as I'd like. But I do my best. http://blog.byjoemoon.com/ )

Re: Balls

#104

Post by jimmymcn1 »

tptacek wrote: post #96

I would be just fine with banning Daring Fireball from HN, if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias. Only on HN or Reddit is Gruber's pro-Apple stance not the most boring conceivable topic. It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart , as if it was faceted and nuanced. I myself love Daring Fireball,…

>if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias

It is also about the topic at hand and people defending Gruber's(or Asymco's or Marco's) pro-Apple bias as if it were somehow insightful or interesting.

> It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart, as if it was faceted and nuanced.

It is more embarassing to see otherwise smart people defend it in the comment threads (eg. people saying that a sales comparison of 20 year old failed consoles with current Android tablets today somehow indicates that those tablet makers will fail and should shut shop instead of trying).

>Anyone else want to just start flagging these things off the site? Look at these silly comment threads. You'd be doing a lot of people a favor by nipping them in the bud.

Who upvotes these stories(beyond the reach of flagging) with shallow analysis favoring Apple anyway? I don't think it's the crowd arguing against Gruber's posts. It is people that think that the analysis worth spreading and discussing about.

Re: Balls

#105

Post by divtxt »

fredoliveira wrote: post #72
divtxt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify: a biased Gruber article may actually have valid points. The problem is that Gruber will only include pro-Apple points. For example, note that Gruber does NOT point out how the acquisition will allow Google to do Apple-style seamless hardware/software design. edit: Android -> Google as pointed out by m_eiman below

The interesting bit is that on the conference call they did say that that was actually not the plan (most likely to keep the other android partners comfortable). Supposedly their process for Android remains the same and Motorola will be on the same footing as everyone else when it comes to software access. This says that the deal was 100% about patents and nothing else, which in turn says it wasn't that great of a de…

Yes, I agree the patents are the main driver.

But I hope they use the opportunity to make great Android handsets. (a role HTC seemed to take on and then drift away from).

They don't have to worry about their partners. It's not like any of them have much choice - only Android & WP7.

Re: Balls

#106

Post by tptacek »

sudont wrote: post #102
tptacek wrote: post #96

I would be just fine with banning Daring Fireball from HN, if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias. Only on HN or Reddit is Gruber's pro-Apple stance not the most boring conceivable topic. It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart , as if it was faceted and nuanced. I myself love Daring Fireball,…

Ironically, he's a huge fan of the comments here: "I’m continually impressed by the quality of the comment threads on Hacker News, for example." http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/06/16/powazek-comments

That's a sad but unsurprising commentary on the state of discussion boards on the Internet in general; when I wrote this comment, the majority of the comments on this story were in some way about Gruber, not the story.

Re: Balls

#107

Post by tptacek »

jimmymcn1 wrote: post #104
tptacek wrote: post #96

I would be just fine with banning Daring Fireball from HN, if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias. Only on HN or Reddit is Gruber's pro-Apple stance not the most boring conceivable topic. It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart , as if it was faceted and nuanced. I myself love Daring Fireball,…

>if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias It is also about the topic at hand and people defending Gruber's(or Asymco's or Marco's) pro-Apple bias as if it were somehow insightful or interesting. > It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart, as if it was faceted and nuanced. It is more embarassing t…

And again, case in point.

Re: Balls

#108

Post by jimmymcn1 »

tptacek wrote: post #107
jimmymcn1 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias It is also about the topic at hand and people defending Gruber's(or Asymco's or Marco's) pro-Apple bias as if it were somehow insightful or interesting. > It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart, as if it was faceted and nuanced. It is more embarassing t…

And again, case in point.

I think I have a better solution for stories from Gruber, Asymco and Marco. Have a checkbox in the user profile indicating if you're a Apple fan and only those people see the stories from the above sites.

Instead of trees of discussions and accusations of downvoting, we could have just a flat discussion and mutual upvoting undisturbed by counter arguments.

Won't that work fabulously and prevent this nonsense of people having to respond to actual discussion with actual posts instead of just handwaving with one liners?

Re: Balls

#109

Post by jimmymcn2 »

tptacek wrote: post #107
jimmymcn1 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias It is also about the topic at hand and people defending Gruber's(or Asymco's or Marco's) pro-Apple bias as if it were somehow insightful or interesting. > It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart, as if it was faceted and nuanced. It is more embarassing t…

And again, case in point.

Any reason that my comment was shadowbanned and showing up as dead when I am logged in? Have I angered someone with my comment below with my previous account JimmyMCN1?

Is there a list of HN mods somewhere?

Comment:

I think I have a better solution for stories from Gruber, Asymco and Marco. Have a checkbox in the user profile indicating if you're a Apple fan and only those people see the stories from the above sites. Instead of trees of discussions and accusations of downvoting, we could have just a flat discussion and mutual upvoting undisturbed by counter arguments.

Won't that work fabulously and prevent this nonsense of people having to respond to actual discussion with actual posts instead of just handwaving with one liners?

Re: Balls

#110

Post by Semiapies »

tptacek wrote: post #96

I would be just fine with banning Daring Fireball from HN, if it meant we could avoid the biweekly DDoS on HN's intellectual capacity sparked by tens-deep threads arguing about Gruber's pro-Apple bias. Only on HN or Reddit is Gruber's pro-Apple stance not the most boring conceivable topic. It's embarrassing to see ostensibly smart people pick it apart , as if it was faceted and nuanced. I myself love Daring Fireball,…

Might be nice to advise anyone willing to blanket-flag posts from a site that they do so at their own risk.

Soon after I started flagging posts from sources I didn't like, my flag links vanished.

Post reply on HN