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Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

math.ucr.edu

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Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll disagree. I read many papers with mathematics in them, and I get a lot of the concepts but the symbology used doesn't make sense to me so its hard for me to understand what is exactly going on. The sentence after the equation that explains each symbol is necessary for me, and many others as well. Not everyone has taken 8 math classes to know each kroniger delta by heart.

Well, musical notation looks like gibberish to someone who did not learn it. That said, I do agree with you 100% on scientific papers. Without an explanation of the formulas to cater to a wider audience a lot of papers fall into the "and then a miracle occurs" fallacy. Not because that's what they actually do. Not at all. I say this because to a large set of readers the impenetrable math has to be taken as a divine a…

Following on from my other reply...

When we start teaching math to students, we start with counting blocks: "You have 2 piles of blocks, one pile of 3 and another pile of 2. If you put them together, you get a pile of 5 blocks!"

That stops working as well when you deal with fractions. You can get away with 2.5 blocks, but 2.5 blocks is really 3 blocks, but one is a little smaller than the others. And at some point you can't use blocks to represent 2.3456 blocks. So you need different kinds of "natural" problems to represent those numbers.

But, as you point out. There are some things that aren't really representable as "natural problems". For a long time the idea of 0 wasn't natural. (People were actually killed for talking about the idea of 0) I mean, what does it mean to have 0 chickens? You either have some chickens, and you say "I have N chickens", or you don't have any chickens and you say nothing. Why would you need a number to represent nothing?

Maybe n^2.1 doesn't have a natural explanation. At least, not one you can hold in your hand. Can you imagine a shape with 2.1 dimensions to relate it to geometry? Probably not. But you can use geometry to prove that n^(a+b) = n^a * n^b and then you can apply those rules to "unnatural values" with an understanding of what is happening. The natural explanation of n^2 can be applied to the unnatural idea of n^2.1

Everything in math can't be understood with geometry or "natural examples", lots of math (most of math?) describes things that are not representable within the constraints of our physical world. That's what makes it so powerful!

Also, not everything in math can just be calculated (see: irrational numbers)

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scisignal.abe4932 This does a considerably better job of context/interest than the math example did.

It's a lot easier when all you have to do is say stuff like "heart failure is bad". What's the mathematician supposed to do, say "group theory is cool and important"?

The thing is, mathematicians understand how cool and important it is, and that's enough. You can't really explain it to someone else -- it's like trying to explain how cool and important a piece of music is to a deaf person who doesn't know music. They see the conductor waving and say "well, that's boring." All you can do is explain "there is a whole world of beauty and meaning there. I'm sorry you can't experience it, but it's there."

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#103
post #67

I always struggled (and still struggle) with math. A couple of years ago, randomly browsing YouTube, I came across this home made video asking how they figured out the distance to the moon before modern technology. The host starts out small scale showing he can calculate the distance to things in his back yard using trigonometry and then scales it up to the moon. My mind was blown, because no one ever told me that. I…

To me it was sometime in high school Physics class that math started to have any semblance of utility to solving actual problems. But by that time most students had already been bored to death with years of the most obtuse memorization and test passing behaviors that it was all lost. Even then Physics was mostly a blizzard of formulas with absolutely minimal explanation and application. The exams were basically "cram as many of the formulas in the book as you can onto a single sheet of paper and then plug and play during the exam".

I did not do well in either set of subjects in K-12 -- even to the point that my graduation from high school was threatened. In college I forced by way back through it all by sheer force of will and got my A's.

There's something fundamentally broken in math/science pedagogy as these subjects aren't really all that difficult. There's far too much time spent memorizing things that are trivial to look up and way too little time understanding how to use them.

An analogy might be learning to cook, and spending all of your time remembering precisely how many spoons, bowls, cups, and cloves of garlic or other ingredients you have. And doing that kind of thing for years, and maybe seeing a demo once of pouring water into a cup. And tests might contain problems like "a party of 5 is coming over for dinner, are you able to set places for all attendees for a 7 course meal?"

The real message being sent is this: "Sorry kids, actually cooking from recipes is only for academics, and to get your PhD and be allowed into the hallowed halls of these academic cooks you must come up with one original recipe (edibility will be determined by peer review)".

In college I retook everything from Algebra up and found the math pedagogy focused more on symbolic manipulation and getting used to how that works in each subject rather than drilling arithmetic in various guises. Tests that required various pre-derived formula were usually just an open book problem. And what mattered was how one went about solving the problem, not the rightness or wrongness of it. Calculators were absolutely expected so you didn't waste time fighting with trivial mistakes.

The sciences usually had a mandatory lab portion that forced application of math to the problem space. Because the labs typically had you collecting your own measurements, it forced you to work through the calculations yourself anyways since there was nowhere else to look up the answer. Again the methods and approaches were where the grade came from, not the slavery to memorization.

Still, while I think the approach I encountered in college was much better than grade school, it still wasn't as good as it could be.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scisignal.abe4932 This does a considerably better job of context/interest than the math example did.

It's a lot easier when all you have to do is say stuff like "heart failure is bad". What's the mathematician supposed to do, say "group theory is cool and important"?

The "Mathematics is Boring" author is a mathematician who seems really enthusiastic about math. He's not asking here for mathematicians to punch up their papers for nonmathematicians; he's asking them to give a bit better context for all the other mathematicians beyond the dozen others in the same sub-sub-subspecialty.

This Science paper's intro/abstract sets it out for scientists, rather than for biologists in whatever subspecialty this thing is.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relatedly, a lot of recipe books just have a dry statement of what the ingredients are and how to combine them. They should be more like CS and science papers, and explain the narrative of why the recipe is exciting, and where it comes from, and what it means for the cook. (Posted from a parallel universe.)

> They should ... explain the narrative of why the recipe is exciting, and where it comes from, and what it means for the cook. You've just described practically any modern recipe website.

I think that's the joke.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the problem is that you quickly run into the "miracle occurs" territory. The square root of a number takes us from an area to the length of the side of the square corresponding to that area. The cube root is the same for a cube. What is the 10th root of x? It's a number that, when multiplied by itself ten times equals x. OK. How do you compute this number? The best I can offer at this point is, for simplicity,…

I think the magic/miracle of math is that you can go from "real world" into "math world" then back into "real world". If a rule is true for c and n and n+1, and you can physically represent the idea when n=2 and n=3, then you can apply that representation theoretically to n>3 to understand ideas that are not easily understandable. The 10th root of x takes you from a measurement of an 10 dimensional object to the meas…

>The 10th root of x takes you from a measurement of an 10 dimensional object to the measurement of a 9 dimensional object.

Doesn't it take you from 10d to 1d? For instance, 10^10 is the hypervolume of a 10-cube with all side lengths = 10.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#107
post #98
post #61

Reading math can be boring (often it's not), but solving problems never is. (Math is not a spectator sport.) I also hear people say programming is boring. This is absurd.

Maybe off topic, but solving problems is a fraction of the joy I get from programming. Expression and personal power over reality are where I get the joy. A painter can create world and share a feeling. An author can manifests a memory. A musician can transmit a human experience without language. Human imaginings about magic are immemorial. Math describes reality. Math also can describe an extrapolation further. Prog…

Math does not describe reality, Physics does. Math is just pure thought. If anything, Math is an abstraction of how we think about things, but not the things themselves.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#108
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that unfamiliar symbols and alphabets are a huge problem for the accessibility of math is common. As physicist I do not agree. Math is hard. It's damned difficult. Symbols and alphabets are the least of your concerns when dealing with a math paper. I know a lot of these symbols by name, I sometimes understand the notation or could familiarize myself with it but the math itself? Nope, no chance, usually. If o…

I'll disagree. I read many papers with mathematics in them, and I get a lot of the concepts but the symbology used doesn't make sense to me so its hard for me to understand what is exactly going on. The sentence after the equation that explains each symbol is necessary for me, and many others as well. Not everyone has taken 8 math classes to know each kroniger delta by heart.

Most mathematics paper will define the symbols they use beyond the basics (and sometimes even the basics). If you are thinking about extremely common symbols then... it's like complaining that somebody not trained in music cannot read a music sheet.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#109

The title should be "why mathematics papers are boring, how to spice them up with narrative", that is what the article is about.

>how to spice them up with narrative

Oh, Lord; NO!

I would like see all Human Narratives/Unnecessary frivolities/Assume-reader-is-a-Idiot language banished from the Teaching of ALL Maths/Science.

What we we need is a focus on the direct teaching of Principles along with their Real World Applications.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#110
Mathematics is NOT Boring; the teaching of Maths divorced of Real-World Applications is what is Boring. An over-emphasis on Formalism/Abstraction is what is killing people's interest in Maths/Sciences.

The Teaching of all Maths/Sciences should always start with a Real-World motivating example and then introduce the Maths as necessary to Solve it.

In this context see V. I. Arnold's essay; On Teaching Mathematics - https://www.uni-muenster.de/Physik.TP/~munsteg/arnold.html

Quote from the above article:

* Attempts to create "pure" deductive-axiomatic mathematics have led to the rejection of the scheme used in physics (observation - model - investigation of the model - conclusions - testing by observations) and its substitution by the scheme: definition - theorem - proof. It is impossible to understand an unmotivated definition but this does not stop the criminal algebraists-axiomatisators.

* What is a group? Algebraists teach that this is supposedly a set with two operations that satisfy a load of easily-forgettable axioms. This definition provokes a natural protest: why would any sensible person need such pairs of operations? "Oh, curse this maths" - concludes the student (who, possibly, becomes the Minister for Science in the future).

* We get a totally different situation if we start off not with the group but with the concept of a transformation (a one-to-one mapping of a set onto itself) as it was historically. A collection of transformations of a set is called a group if along with any two transformations it contains the result of their consecutive application and an inverse transformation along with every transformation.

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