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Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

esghound.substack.com

101–110 of 203 posts

Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

#101
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX wants to make a roundtrip to Mars, though. There's no fossil fuels on Mars.

And if it doesn’t make any economic sense to do it here, where it is super convenient, shipping it to Mars (with nothing of known value there to return or any known economic model that could make it worthwhile) to do it there is going to be worth it? Not saying all human endeavor needs to have a healthy profit margin. SpaceX is a business however and besides doing it for the lulz, or getting a government contract, it…

So you're just a typical No-Mars skeptic, got it.

Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

#102
Heres a tl;dr from Reddit. I'm very tired as this is a big deal and no, I don't have a cohesive narrative throughout the series. I was trying to get as much information out there during the very short 30-day window for public comment. I believe public comment is super important for these types of projects. I have over a decade of experience in this specific field, and have worked as a regulator, for non-profits, and as an employee of big oil and gas. Please go easy on me

SpaceX and FAA snuck a bunch of oil and gas infrastructure including a gas plant, a LNG a 250 MW power plant into an "insignificant/minor change" NEPA environmental review document that was supposed to just be for bigger rockets.

It has tons of basic errors, missing data, and even though NEPA is a public disclosure law, no one is talking about the oil stuff at all Also implied, but explicitly not noted in the document are a 1. Pipeline that needs to be constructed and 2. the huge amount of newly drilled oil and gas wells in a region of Texas that currently has no production to speak of.

Oh and all of this is on a federally protected wildlife reserve. And it's super illegal and unprecedented and brings about all sorts of uncomfortable questions about regulatory capture

Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

#103
What I can’t seem to find the answer to in this very long and stream-of-consciousness style series of posts is why the author thinks the FAA is the only relevant federal agency. They complain constantly about violating NEPA and accuse the FAA of just waiving this through … but there’s no way someone can operate a point-source emitter (e.g., large 250mw power station, let alone the natural gas processing facility) without getting a permit from the relevant air quality regulator.

Might be the EPA but I’m guessing it’ll be TCEQ; most states, especially the large ones, have their own state agencies and so long as the standard exceeds what the federal minimums are, then they issue the permits. This is the scheme set up by the Clean Water Act and Clean Air Act. (I practice in California and we have two separate state agencies, one for air and one for water. It seems like Texas Comm’n on Enviro Quality does both per their website.) The EPA doesn’t get involved in permit issuing and the state agencies even have authority over other federal agencies’ operations and issue permits to them.

So if the FAA is asleep at the switch, who really cares? There’s a whole second governmental regulator out there and a host of environmental non-profits and local governments with standing to sue if they think that regulator has made a decision they don’t like.

It’s like complaining that the plumbing inspector hasn’t given proper consideration to the minimum set-backs and architectural character of the neighborhood and signs off on the new toilets and showers for a house renovation. Like, who cares? You can’t move in without getting the final permit from the City and even if you did get that permit, the neighbors can sue and stop construction if they think the City made the wrong decision.

What am I missing? Why is this author so obviously emotionally distraught?

Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

#104
post #74
post #53

The article shows many tables without ever quoting sources. In the previous article in the series, the author claims: > ... I’m a “forensic environmental data specialist” (I invented the term just now). I use the troves of free to the public data located in regulatory submittals and permits to extract useful information. ... Great. If free to the public, where are the links? Clicking on those table images just links…

I agree with you. This is poorly written, random snark. It seems sort of plausible but it’s like looking at a pile of Lego and thinking “Yeah, maybe you could make a Millennium Falcon from this I think?”

ESGHound is the source that broke this story[1] about SpaceX that was featured on TechCrunch last week, and this submission stems from that investigation. You might not like their style of writing, but it would be foolish to dismiss it because it offends your taste.

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/08/the-mystery-of-elon-musks-...

Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

#105

I like how we are hiking the fuel prices for the peasants to reduce CO2 emmissions while we give free passes to billionaires to extract and burn fossils for tourism purposes.

> burn fossils for tourism purposes

Like airplanes? Like cruise ships?

Would it somehow be better if SpaceX just bought natural gas on the open market, reducing available supply and thereby potentially increasing price through market forces?

Are you suggesting we tax carbon so SpaceX has to pay tax on the fuel they extract that could go towards clean energy investments?

I'm not sure of the point you're making.

Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

#106
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big deal is that the well is seemingly exempt from the regulation all other wells go through. It doesn't matter what Musk does with the methane, what matters is that he's at best exploiting loopholes and at worst operating extrajudicially. Also, SpaceX "powering the human colonization of Mars" is a pretty huge sip of the Kool Aid there. Given the founder's track record, it's about as believable as "fully self-dri…

File a complaint with the Texas Railroad Commission and the US EPA, in all seriousness. If you need methane to escape the gravity well, follow the rules like everyone else in O&G.

Well, apparently not everyone else [1]:

"The FTSE 250 group, which is the largest well owner in the US with over 61,000 in its portfolio, found itself on the defensive after a Bloomberg report said several wells owned by the company were leaking methane, a highly potent greenhouse gas."

[1] https://newsflash.one/2021/10/12/market-report-leaking-wells...

Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

#107
post #3

The context here seems to be that SpaceX is in fact building an old boring fracked well gas plant in federally protected land, but because they cursorily mention rockets and call it a "methane processing thingamajig" instead of what it plain is, the FAA who has no experience doing environmental review but is involved because rockets is all too happy to just nod it through.

Some more context. If I understand correctly this gas plant is need to power a desalination plant which is need to produce massive amounts of water which will be used to implement a sound suppression deluge system that is required by the FAA. Salt water will corrode everything and there isn't existing water and gas infrastructure in place to lean on. ie they have to build the stack from scratch.

Perhaps there's a more efficient place to build the facility, perhaps someplace with abundant water so that you don't have to spend all this energy to create it?

Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

#108

What I can’t seem to find the answer to in this very long and stream-of-consciousness style series of posts is why the author thinks the FAA is the only relevant federal agency. They complain constantly about violating NEPA and accuse the FAA of just waiving this through … but there’s no way someone can operate a point-source emitter (e.g., large 250mw power station, let alone the natural gas processing facility) wit…

It's a valid question. I am surprised (as I am usually) at the emotional content of these sorts of things.

Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

#109
post #46
post #3

The context here seems to be that SpaceX is in fact building an old boring fracked well gas plant in federally protected land, but because they cursorily mention rockets and call it a "methane processing thingamajig" instead of what it plain is, the FAA who has no experience doing environmental review but is involved because rockets is all too happy to just nod it through.

The EPA doesn't have a dog in this fight - the feds don't have much of a role at all, unless it is on federal lands of a particular class that would trigger special protections (ie National Park). Piping gas across state lines can involve the feds, or if they impign on a wetland or waterway. There's no interstate commerce to trigger any substantial federal involvement that I can see. Texas was an inspired choice - Ca…

> Texas was an inspired choice - California would have been a knife fight regulatorily.

Inspired in the immediate profit sense, not in the long term affects on your planet sense. SpaceX lives here too; it's their planet too.

Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant

#110
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX wants to make a roundtrip to Mars, though. There's no fossil fuels on Mars.

Yup and musk also argues in favor of a carbon tax. He is openly hopeful that the fundamental economics will be changed to make producing their own methane via Sabatier economical. It is up to the controllers of incentive structures to change the fundamentals of commerce/ecology.

Pretty sure that would require something like a 5x cost increase in carbon, though I can’t find hard numbers anywhere easily. Do you have any pointers?
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