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iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

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Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#101

Post by renewiltord »

dylan604 wrote: post #36
packetslave wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it a "trick" but I suspect Apple is doing some focus stacking under the hood. The image pipeline in the iPhone gets more and more advanced with every IOS release. The state of the art for computational photography is pretty amazing.

If you're doing something under the hood without disclosing it but calling it something else, it's a trick. It doesn't have to be nefarious, but you are tricking the user into thinking they are doing something which they are not actually doing.

DSLRs use extensive such tricks to process the image. Enthusiast groups will show the pathological cases for the image processing that happens. Ultimately, ceci n'est pas une pipe applies to the picture. It's a representation and it is meant to evoke the scene.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#102

Post by lm28469 »

packetslave wrote: post #37

Here's the thing about iPhone photography (and Android too, I suppose): if you know what a DSLR is, or the difference between DSLR and mirrorless bodies, you are not the target audience . Apple isn't trying compete with a $3500 Sony A7R4 with a $1000 90mm macro lens. They're aiming for people who see the example "macro" photos and say "neat! I want to try that". Or the people who have already bought a Moment macro le…

> Apple isn't trying compete with a $3500 Sony A7R4 with a $1000 90mm macro lens

tbh something like a Nikon d300 with a 200$ lens does a better job in good light

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#103

Post by sudosysgen »

defaultname wrote: post #100
foldr wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that it doesn’t matter what resolution we choose as long as we do the calculations based on the same resolution for both the iPhone and the DSLR (and hence with different values for the CoC in each case, given the different sensor sizes). Thus your value for the iPhone’s CoC derived from its pixel size is irrelevant. We can choose any target resolution we like to make the comparison and get the same resu…

The CoC for the iPhone is smaller than the ASP-C given the smaller sensor. By choosing the same resolution of an ASP-C sensor, we are calculating for a given level of "good enough for that resolution". It is perfectly comparable level of focus. I have no idea why you are so caught up in distractions. I calculated the hyperfocal length for an iPhone and an equivalent zoom SLR, at the same aperture. These yield effecti…

You can't use the same aperture. The SLR has to be at a smaller aperture so the diameter of the lens is the same. That way both will gather the same amount of light and have the same amount of bokeh.

That's your issue - you need to use equivalent apertures.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#104

Post by defaultname »

sudosysgen wrote: post #103
defaultname wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CoC for the iPhone is smaller than the ASP-C given the smaller sensor. By choosing the same resolution of an ASP-C sensor, we are calculating for a given level of "good enough for that resolution". It is perfectly comparable level of focus. I have no idea why you are so caught up in distractions. I calculated the hyperfocal length for an iPhone and an equivalent zoom SLR, at the same aperture. These yield effecti…

You can't use the same aperture. The SLR has to be at a smaller aperture so the diameter of the lens is the same. That way both will gather the same amount of light and have the same amount of bokeh. That's your issue - you need to use equivalent apertures.

At this point I'm sure you must be joking.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#106

Post by dylan604 »

renewiltord wrote: post #101
dylan604 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're doing something under the hood without disclosing it but calling it something else, it's a trick. It doesn't have to be nefarious, but you are tricking the user into thinking they are doing something which they are not actually doing.

DSLRs use extensive such tricks to process the image. Enthusiast groups will show the pathological cases for the image processing that happens. Ultimately, ceci n'est pas une pipe applies to the picture. It's a representation and it is meant to evoke the scene.

What DSLRs use AI or other software based tricks to perform macro photography?

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#107

Post by uuddlrlr »

throwanem wrote: post #42

I've tried this functionality in Halide on my 12 mini, and it's not half bad in good light. No doubt the 13s with built-in macro do better, and it's certainly nowhere near the same realm as the D850 and 105mm macro lens I use for real [1] work [2], but it's not a bad capability to have in a device that fits in a pocket. [1] https://aaron-m.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/DSC1250-1.jpg [2] https://aaron-m.com/wp-conten…

Content warning: bug on bug violence

Gorgeous shots tho

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#108

Post by throwaway81523 »

marban wrote: post #6

While the 13 Pro's lens is undoubtedly a marvel of engineering, I feel like all those 'mind.blown' reviews must have been written by youngsters who never used a dedicated macro lens on a (D)SLR.

I've never been able to get good macro shots on a DSLR, despite decent optics and lighting, and an ok-for-most-purposes tripod. I eventually decided that to do it really right takes a massive copy stand, maybe on a concrete slab. Stuff wobbles too much without it.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#109

Post by foldr »

defaultname wrote: post #100
foldr wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that it doesn’t matter what resolution we choose as long as we do the calculations based on the same resolution for both the iPhone and the DSLR (and hence with different values for the CoC in each case, given the different sensor sizes). Thus your value for the iPhone’s CoC derived from its pixel size is irrelevant. We can choose any target resolution we like to make the comparison and get the same resu…

The CoC for the iPhone is smaller than the ASP-C given the smaller sensor. By choosing the same resolution of an ASP-C sensor, we are calculating for a given level of "good enough for that resolution". It is perfectly comparable level of focus. I have no idea why you are so caught up in distractions. I calculated the hyperfocal length for an iPhone and an equivalent zoom SLR, at the same aperture. These yield effecti…

If you double the focal length you also have to double the sensor dimensions (to get the same angle of view) and hence double the size of the CoC - so you end up with f^2/f = f. That is, you double the numerator in the DoF formula because the CoC has doubled, and quadruple the denominator because the focal length has doubled, with the end result that the DoF halves.

Your mistake is one that’s easy to make and one that I’ve made myself before. We’re not trolling you. You’re just losing track of a factor of f and thereby getting the wrong result.

By the way, I also agree with your overall point about smaller sensor cameras being better suited to macro photography. It’s just that your f512 claim is based on a mistaken calculation.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#110

Post by zippergz »

marban wrote: post #6

While the 13 Pro's lens is undoubtedly a marvel of engineering, I feel like all those 'mind.blown' reviews must have been written by youngsters who never used a dedicated macro lens on a (D)SLR.

I’ve been seriously into photography since well before usable digital cameras were a thing. I have used very expensive cameras, lenses, and lighting rigs with 35mm, medium format, 4x5 and pro-level digital. I am under no illusions about the difference between a high end dedicated rig and what my phone can do. But I still find it amazing and delightful to be able to get such great results from a device that fits in my pocket, I have with me all the time, and also does so many other things. It’s all about context.
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