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Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

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Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#101

Post by mindwok »

throwawayfear wrote: post #64
mindwok wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that in general Australians are more trusting of their government than our American friends. I often see poeple on Twitter like Joe Rogan and friends expressing total shock about how compliant Aussies are with what seems like draconian lockdown rules, but I think that misses the point. When our government says we can only go outside for an hour a day, there's a general sentiment that this is a shame but we un…

That trust will be abused. It is just a matter of time. History is full of examples. Why build this machine in the first place and then hope that whoever drives it is nice enough to not abuse the power? Why risk it? The pandemic is not dangerous enough to justify this blind faith.

As for the why, I think being able to trust your government is a great thing. It has allowed us to basically eleminate guns in our society except for recreation/farming, and as a result of our lockdowns we have only 1000 deaths. We should have 45,000 if you assume the same per-capita rate as the USA. So there are benefits for this kind of faith in your Government.

I think Americas emphasis on individual freedoms comes at the cost of some of these things, but there are other benefits of course and I do admire America's philosophy quite a lot. I don't have a crystal ball and I'm not sure what's better in the long run. As an Aussie though I'm happy with the trade-offs so far.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#102

Post by hug »

umvi wrote: post #94
amanzi wrote: post #66

The opening paragraph of the article describes what is actually happening and it's far less ominous that what the comments here suggest. "In an official statement, the State Government announced a contract to a Western Australian (WA) company for $1.1 million to develop a new smartphone app that uses facial recognition and GPS tracking technology to monitor people who are ordered to self-quarantine at home, reported…

Still, it lays infrastructure for future abuse. When the covid Zeta mutation comes around, it might be tempting to scale it up to the general public. "Sir, if we make the general public use this, it will save 24% more lives"

> "Sir, if we make the general public use this, it will save 24% more lives"

Oh no saving lives! What a terrible use of tech.

Would it make you feel better if I told you that if we save their lives we can serve them more ads?

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#103

Post by throwawayfear »

hug wrote: post #102
umvi wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, it lays infrastructure for future abuse. When the covid Zeta mutation comes around, it might be tempting to scale it up to the general public. "Sir, if we make the general public use this, it will save 24% more lives"

> "Sir, if we make the general public use this, it will save 24% more lives" Oh no saving lives! What a terrible use of tech . Would it make you feel better if I told you that if we save their lives we can serve them more ads?

Do you think they'd roll out tyranny in broad daylight without trying to find a convenient excuse with which to fool the gullible? Of course they'll say it's to save lives. Just like the "think of the children" laws are always supposedly about protecting children. Like Apple and CSAM being obvious surveillance tools being introduced in the name of protecting children.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#104

Post by ephextom »

umvi wrote: post #97
everettp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, it appears to be an optional way of allowing returned travellers to serve out their quarantine period at a place of their choosing rather than in a state-run, guarded, hotel room, or without regular police visits to their home. I would have thought HN would regard this as a sensible and efficient use of technology.

> rather than in a state-run, guarded, hotel room, or without regular police visits to their home Ah yes these are totally normal things for a democratic country to do

Quarantine has been used in all kinds of societies for thousands of years during times of infectious outbreak. It’s described in the Bible, and it was used in the USA during the Spanish Flu. What is the point of quarantine without systems to ensure it is obeyed?

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#105

Post by ehnto »

umvi wrote: post #97
everettp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, it appears to be an optional way of allowing returned travellers to serve out their quarantine period at a place of their choosing rather than in a state-run, guarded, hotel room, or without regular police visits to their home. I would have thought HN would regard this as a sensible and efficient use of technology.

> rather than in a state-run, guarded, hotel room, or without regular police visits to their home Ah yes these are totally normal things for a democratic country to do

The borders are closed so it's a choice you have made to enter the country and require quarantine, you know what you signed up for it is made abundantly clear.

I think if you asked the majority of Australians they would say that they are happy people have to quarantine at the hotels and that they be guarded, since most of our outbreaks have been from quarantine breaches. So as far as a democracy goes that's right on track. Democratic doesn't mean individuals can do what they want, it means the whole community is involved in setting the rules for the community.

They weren't guarded by police at the start, but non-compliance and malpractice from the regular security guards had the community complaining about having such lax security.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#106

Post by throwawayfear »

shkkmo wrote: post #56
throwawayfear wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of insanity have we collectively tolerated that “you can pay to be locked up in a ‘hotel’ tor two weeks” is seen as some kind of evidence that there is no compulsion? That’s like saying people aren’t forced to vaccinate since you don’t “need” to work at that particular job and you don’t “need” to exercise in a gym or watch a movie in a theater. Everything in history shows the slope is slippery. They will pa…

The kind of insanity that has been the law for well over a year. Getting outraged at an effort to make that policy less draconian is pretty silly.

It can be a law for ten years. Doesn't make it less of a shitty law.

And I think the outrage is useful. It will mobilize people until it boils over into action, if enough people do it when it actually counts. This is when it actually counts. Everyone has spent all their Outrage Points on useless shit some actor or celebrity said about something no one will care about on their deathbed, but so few are saying anything about this totalitarian nightmare.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#107

Post by hug »

the_third_wave wrote: post #93
hug wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I would rather anti-vaxers leave the country than continue to hang around, yes Those supposed 'anti-vaxers' are more or less guaranteed to be vaccinated for nearly all diseases just like I assume you (and others who insist on calling anyone who is not toeing the party line by that epithet) are. Some people have natural immunity from having had SARS2. Some people are being advised by their doctors not to take the cu…

Approximately no one in Australia has 'natural immunity', because approximately no one here has had COVID.

Those people who are advised by their docotrs not to get vaccinated are few and far between, but it turns out the current vaccine push takes those figures into account.

The people who deem the risk of COVID lower than the vaccine are just straight up incorrect. They're either misled or just deliberately contrarian, and I don't care what they think.

All autonomy is important, except where that autonomy would endanger others in society.

> If you are vaccinated you are mostly protected so why worry over those who do not get vaccinated?

If they also opt-out of taking up hospital care necessary for treating those people who didn't refuse a vaccine, honestly, I'd be okay with it. But we both know that won't happen. It'll end up like the US where there are people dying in the ER because there's no room due to COVID cases, and I do not want Australia to end up like the US.

> Have you seen the movie 'Babe', the one about the pig which acted like a dog? [...] Don't be a sheep, Australia has enough of them already.

All of this is very ironic, given that the group you are implying are the wolves are the ones taking livestock medication.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#108

Post by throwawayfear »

jrobe234 wrote: post #92
throwawayfear wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It’s not government overreach, you have a choice of ‘temporary’ in-home facial recognition and GPS surveillance or staying at a quarantine hotel.” Not only is this a laughable “choice”, the kind of manipulative choice you’d expect a tech manager to pretend to offer you when all his projects suck but he wants you to feel like you “picked” a project, it’s also naive to present it as a choice. You don’t wait until it’s…

> Keep in mind you are writing this in defense of a gov that presumes itself to be in charge of how many people you can have over. Source: https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to- ... “NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian yesterday announced freedoms for fully vaccinated people once 70% of the state’s eligible population are double dosed. These include being able to go to hospitality venues, hairdresser…

My mistake. Are they not unified into a single Australian government? I'm not Australian, I'm observing from across the pond.

More importantly though, that distinction does little to make it feel more right. What controls exist to keep the idiocy contained to only one part of Australia? How do you know they won't make that the policy everywhere? Could that happen?

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#109

Post by hilbert42 »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #8
s5300 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you never learn that the definition of a government includes having a monopoly on violence? Australia would essentially become a failed state with your suggestion, and I don't exactly think the government is just going to let that happen.

Australia is already a failed state. That happened the second they decided to imprison their populace and started talking about the "New world order." The state has failed its people, and the only thing left is for it to crumble.

There is nothing wrong with contact tracing during a pandemic. It's been used by many countries in the past including the US.

Let's go back a long way to 1854 during the cholera epidemic in London when Dr John Snow found that the Broad Street pump was its cause and he located it by contact tracing those who contacted cholera and worked backwards to the source. This case is famous for the very fact it shows that contact tracing and isolating saves lives (please ensure that you look at the map he used to trace the pump): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1854_Broad_Street_cholera_ou...

I can attest to this, contact tracing put a quick end to the COVID outbreak near where I live and I'm very thankful for the work those tracers did under very arduous circumstances.

In principle, contact tracing during a pandemic has nothing to do with the general increase in surveillance that's gripping the planet at the moment - it is an entirely separate matter.

The fact that we have sleezebag governments prepared to subvert a decent legitimate process is - again - a separate and serious problem for democracy.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#110

Post by throwawayfear »

mindwok wrote: post #101
throwawayfear wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That trust will be abused. It is just a matter of time. History is full of examples. Why build this machine in the first place and then hope that whoever drives it is nice enough to not abuse the power? Why risk it? The pandemic is not dangerous enough to justify this blind faith.

As for the why, I think being able to trust your government is a great thing. It has allowed us to basically eleminate guns in our society except for recreation/farming, and as a result of our lockdowns we have only 1000 deaths. We should have 45,000 if you assume the same per-capita rate as the USA. So there are benefits for this kind of faith in your Government. I think Americas emphasis on individual freedoms come…

I would love to trust a government and have it take care of everything.

But unfortunately government is run by humans who are susceptible to delusions like the consolidation of power over other humans. And if it is ever run by an AI, well, that AI may decide to just destroy everyone. So while trusting a government would be great, they have not earned that and Australia's governing bodies are clearly driving off a cliff with everyone still in the car. Why trust that anymore?

They're arresting people for making Facebook posts against lockdowns. Source:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54007824

Australia presumes to say how many people can visit your home. Source:

https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-...

“NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian yesterday announced freedoms for fully vaccinated people once 70% of the state’s eligible population are double dosed. These include being able to go to hospitality venues, hairdressers and gyms, and have five people to your home.”

They can arbitrarily lock you in your apartment building for up to weeks, no one allowed to leave. Source:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53316097

So what is there to trust?

Where will you draw the line? And when? When it's too late, and when you have to pretend to be "happy with the trade-offs so far" because they're monitoring your posts on HN and arresting you if you are not happy with the trade-offs so far? That's not far off from how they arrested that pregnant woman for making a Facebook post. Wake up.

And you celebrate that you can't defend yourself with firearms, but now you have police and military patrolling your streets to enforce these covid laws and check papers.

Source:

https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/idP8sX

Why trust this?

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