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Problems with Oracle SQL

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Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#101

Post by jen20 »

torginus wrote: post #63
vjust wrote: post #14

It seems to be the general rule of thumb that, when you want to google for an oracle error message, then exclusion of both oracle documentation site, and developer forums is your first criteria on the search bar. Same applies to Microsoft (large parts of MSDN), and now Amazon Web Services documentation (at least some parts of it). That's the reason StackOverflow works - it really solves programmer's problems, instead…

I'm not sure why the hate against MSDN - at least for .NET, I found the documentation to be one of the best in the business -even a decade ago. I'd only put Go's docs ahead in terms of helpfulness. I cut my teeth writing .NET code, then switched to Java writing apps on Android - the step down in doc quality was quite significant.

“// handle errors here” “// don’t do this in real code”

Because a list of errors that could occur and a comprehensive list of what is recoverable (and how) vs what should abort is not useful at all in developer documentation…

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#102

Post by oldsecondhand »

ericbarrett wrote: post #17
munk-a wrote: post #8

I've worked with databases for a while now and I've never advocated for moving to Oracle (I have advocated for postgres though). The long term organizational costs is a big factor - but an almost equally large factor is the fact that 1. I have never actually used their dialect and have heard absolutely terrible things about it 2. There is no non-enterprise DBMS available that uses something close to their dialect so…

Oracle sells to executives, not technical staff. Training on Oracle tech is via certified classes, provided “free” by your employer as part of their licensing deal; not online discovery. Source: sold to and worked with Oracle Inc. for several years, got a front row seat at the sausage factory.

I've got to attend some free Oracle classes at uni (taught by Oracle employees), they were horribly boring. I don't think they'd have any chance at selling to technical staff even if they tried.

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#103

Post by mrweasel »

JacKTrocinskI wrote: post #13

I have worked with the Oracle database for six years and haven't had any major issues with error messages, in fact I'd say Oracle did a really great job building an amazing database.

We run a large number of Oracle database for customers. I mostly help manage the application running on top of the database, and we have a DBA team handling the databases.

It's amazing to see how calmly they handle managing Oracle, but their argumentation is also very Oracle-like: It's not a database problem, you're just using it wrong. Which would be a terrible answer, if they weren't right. I think most of us forget that for all the terribleness of Oracle, they actually do build a very stable and performant database, assuming you can afford it.

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#104

Post by [deleted] »

tmd83 wrote: post #43
beamatronic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess, did you get hit with more than one 3:00am?

Let's not forget that Oracle DB uses the system timezone as the datatype storage (not sure what other database do to be honest) so unless you were running your DB machine as UTC by default their timestamp storage would be ambiguous for DST shift and that's their default. Why wouldn't they store everything in UTC and use the system timezone for parse/formatting I have no clue.

[deleted]

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#105

Post by dragonwriter »

mrweasel wrote: post #99
torginus wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why the hate against MSDN - at least for .NET, I found the documentation to be one of the best in the business -even a decade ago. I'd only put Go's docs ahead in terms of helpfulness. I cut my teeth writing .NET code, then switched to Java writing apps on Android - the step down in doc quality was quite significant.

Microsofts documentation is a mixed bag, but mostly rather good, if you know how to read it. An example of a place where it's bad is the Python API for Azure. I needed to call some service, I forget which, and everything was clearly just translated from C#. There's a function which takes a string as an input, except it doesn't, it takes one of three string, neither of which is mentioned. I assume that in C# it's an e…

> Microsofts documentation is a mixed bag, but mostly rather good, if you know how to read it.

“if you know how to read it” is...not a ringing endorsement of documentation. But, its true that MS documentation is less likely to be wrong once you understand what it is trying to say than, say, Amazon's (though have glaring omissions or things concealed by opaque organization is quite common.)

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#106

Post by punnerud »

vjust wrote: post #14

It seems to be the general rule of thumb that, when you want to google for an oracle error message, then exclusion of both oracle documentation site, and developer forums is your first criteria on the search bar. Same applies to Microsoft (large parts of MSDN), and now Amazon Web Services documentation (at least some parts of it). That's the reason StackOverflow works - it really solves programmer's problems, instead…

A lot of the good errors is gone when you switch from (Oracle) SQL Developer to DataGrip.

So many reasons to use DataGrip, but often enough (>once a month) I have to fire up SQL Developer to get line number errors.

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#107

Post by collaborative »

JacKTrocinskI wrote: post #13

I have worked with the Oracle database for six years and haven't had any major issues with error messages, in fact I'd say Oracle did a really great job building an amazing database.

Oracle was the first DB I did major work with (12 yrs ago). I have fond memories of that time. I created an automated warehouse management system with it

Pros:

- pl/sql (I like it more than other flavors of sql, maybe because it was the first one I used a lot)

-pl sql developer. Not the java one (sql developer). I loved that you could see tabs in a list and in general it was smooth. I still keep a thin client in my spare drive and use it with delight from time to time

Cons:

-Installing and maintaining Oracle. But it wasn't terrible either

-Having to read Burleston posts. Not sure if this has improved

I know I am biased by my experience, I've heard many horror stories. I wouldn't choose Oracle today, but having to develop for it wouldn't scare me either

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#108

Post by lubonay »

NeutralForest wrote: post #39
vjust wrote: post #14

It seems to be the general rule of thumb that, when you want to google for an oracle error message, then exclusion of both oracle documentation site, and developer forums is your first criteria on the search bar. Same applies to Microsoft (large parts of MSDN), and now Amazon Web Services documentation (at least some parts of it). That's the reason StackOverflow works - it really solves programmer's problems, instead…

I can't agree with the Java one, there are great examples and docs out there.

Well, he said Java for Android. The Android SDK is a capricious beast and the documentation is often outdated or sub-par.

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#109

Post by SCLeo »

winrid wrote: post #79

The thing that kills me about Oracle is that since the license does not allow benchmarking, we (or at least I) don't know how it actually stacks up to the competition. Of course, that's the idea, but it would be cool to have that data.

What?! How do they disallow people from benchmarking it? Do they just forbid people from benchmarking in legal terms? That sounds so fishy.

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#110

Post by laumars »

vbezhenar wrote: post #24
munk-a wrote: post #8

I've worked with databases for a while now and I've never advocated for moving to Oracle (I have advocated for postgres though). The long term organizational costs is a big factor - but an almost equally large factor is the fact that 1. I have never actually used their dialect and have heard absolutely terrible things about it 2. There is no non-enterprise DBMS available that uses something close to their dialect so…

Back in the day MS SQL was Windows-only and Postgres was not mature, so the choice was Oracle or DB2. And Oracle was more popular, because it used more progressive model (versions vs DB2 locks). Plenty of people who don't closely follow recent trends associate database with Oracle, so when they have a word, they'll choose it. Oracle it not that bad anyway, it's just stupidly expensive. I'd choose Postgres any day, bu…

There were more than just Oracle or DB2. Informix, SyBase, 4D and I’m pretty sure there was something with the word “fox” in its name too. Plus of course MySQL, though that was many taken seriously until relatively recently.
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