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Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

npr.org

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Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#101

Post by nostromo »

michaelt wrote: post #40

As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…

My takeaway is the opposite: I'm pleasantly surprised with how many people are vaccinated, and how quickly. It's hard to get 2/3rds of Americans to agree on just about anything.

When you look at the hold-outs, it's largely young people who are at very low risk of serious illness. (85% of 65 and older are vaccinated, but just 57% of people 18-29.) So it makes sense to me that they are more hesitant.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#102

Post by karaterobot »

nostromo wrote: post #9

> but vaccine hesitancy — particularly among white Republicans This sort of quip really makes me distrust NPR. White people are more vaccinated than blacks or Latinos, but the journalist couldn't help but try to throw in a dunk on their favorite bogeyman. https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-p...

It's possible that the intersection of white people and Republicans is the least likely group to get vaccinated, according to some survey.

Even if that were true, it's still a cheap shot from NPR, since the group you'd want to reference in that context would be whoever the largest anti-vax group is, not the ones who are least likely to change their minds.

And in any case, the link they cite as support doesn't actually support the statement: it's about rural whites not getting vaccinated, and mentions Republicans (and Evangelicals) only speculatively and in passing. It might be that NPR sees all these groups as equivalent, and uses one as a shorthand for the other without the need for explanation or comment, which of course they are not.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#103

Post by hunterb123 »

outside1234 wrote: post #59
francis-io wrote: post #8

I feel awful for the people with religious or medical reasons they can't be vaccinated. I can't imagen having to potentially pick between a truly held religious belief and proving for a family.

I can - I'd dump the voodoo. And there are a vanishingly small number of medical reasons to skip it. Most of the people claiming this are making it up.

There's the wonderful SV attitude we all love...

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#104

Post by cbdumas »

twstdsistrs84 wrote: post #97
threatofrain wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punching yourself in the face, or nanny state discussions, is more akin to something like a seat belt law. We have seat belt laws to stop the individual from hurting themselves, not because we're afraid they're going to launch out as a projectile and hurt others. But vaccination is a community thing more than an individual thing. If it were just about hurting yourself, then I'd agree that the discussion should be fra…

> But vaccination is a community thing more than an individual thing. Ok, but the covid vaccines do not prevent infection or transmission -- which really takes the wind out of the "do it for the good of the community" sail. Additionally, viral concentrations via min PCR cycle threshold has been found to be roughly equal between vaccinated and unvaccinated. And finally, these mandates completely ignore natural immunit…

> covid vaccines do not prevent infection

This is untrue, see this site and the studies in the footnotes: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-var...

TL;DR: Vaccines are effective, though not perfect, at preventing infection with the delta variant

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#105

Post by giantg2 »

yupper32 wrote: post #41
giantg2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And let's not forget that people with natural antibodies are being fired from their private sector jobs too. We seem to be focused on measuring output rather than outcomes. Other countries are giving recovered people the same status as the vaccinated since they have the antibodies. But I guess that makes too much sense...

This is just a talking point coming from people who don't want to get the vaccination. Those people who don't want to get the vaccination largely exist because of misinformation, not because of any real risk (read: very very very very minimal risk) that comes with taking the Covid vaccine. Everyone (who can) should take the covid vaccine, regardless of their antibody status.

Isn't the vaccination rate of healthcare worker only about 60%? If the reasons are strictly misinformation, then it seems you have an almost 40% chance of getting an incompetent healthcare professional. In my mind, that suggests there are rational and reasonable reasons, since I find that more likely than 40% being blatantly incompetent.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#106

Post by albertop »

albertop wrote: post #94
core-utility wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where does the line for public "health" get drawn? Who draws it, the ruling party in power? Everything is health based if you want it to be.

In Australia government now controls how much alcohol people can consume in their locked down homes. They are searching all bags and things coming into the building. That is the line now. How far it will go we will see.

Also: In one of the most callous examples of exclusionary state politics in practice, last year the Queensland government denied a 14-year-old double-lung transplant patient from NSW access to his specialist doctor, declaring that Queensland hospitals were for Queenslanders.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#107

Post by betterunix2 »

sk2020 wrote: post #79
betterunix2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination is not a political position. Vaccines only work if a large majority of people are vaccinated and people who refuse to receive the shot are putting everyone else in danger. A basic function of a government is to protect public safety, and that is what a vaccine mandate does.

Your vaccine does not work unless someone or everyone else has one? Has this been observed with previous vaccine products?

Yes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_infection#By_dise...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Do not think in terms of "your vaccine," because vaccines are about preventing the spread of a disease within a population.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#108

Post by tzs »

threatofrain wrote: post #73
michaelt wrote: post #40

As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…

Punching yourself in the face, or nanny state discussions, is more akin to something like a seat belt law. We have seat belt laws to stop the individual from hurting themselves, not because we're afraid they're going to launch out as a projectile and hurt others. But vaccination is a community thing more than an individual thing. If it were just about hurting yourself, then I'd agree that the discussion should be fra…

In a society in which if you do something stupid that causes massive but not immediately fatal injuries to yourself you will be taken to an emergency room and likely given expensive treatment even if you do not have adequate insurance or enough money of your own to pay for that treatment, thereby passing the cost on to the rest of us in terms of either higher medical costs or higher taxes, it is a lot harder for it to be just about hurting yourself.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#109

Post by swayvil »

michaelt wrote: post #40

As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…

But some of us see it differently.

You are telling me that I am not allowed to disagree with you.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#110

Post by Daishiman »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #99
Daishiman wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The COVID vaccine is effective at preventing mass ICU occupancy. The smallpox vaccine is exceptionally effective when compared to other vaccines. Most other vaccines require 3-4 applications for reasonable immunity; same as COVID.

Don't pretend to be at all concerned about ICU capacity if you also support mass firings of nurses who won't take the vaccine, which is another of the "prongs" being rolled out by Biden today.

So you support having unvaccinated nurses in hospitals full of people with compromised immune systems? How does that work?
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