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Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

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Re: Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

#101

Post by zxcvbn4038 »

otterley wrote: post #93
zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Million dollar question would be if all the “feature requests” that AWS support opens when they don’t know what else to do actually go someplace or if they just get swept aside every few days. I’ve always been under the impression they receive very little or no attention. Even bugs where I have included a reproducible test case that results in an internal error, they just keep trying to close the ticket every few day…

I work for AWS. We have an internal tracking system containing customer feature requests, and our service teams review them biweekly and they get prioritized by product management. “Working backwards from the customer” is gospel here.

That is cool to know! For several years I have been tell the support people not to bother with feature requests because I didn’t think they went anyplace, maybe I’ll let them open them going forward.

Re: Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

#102

Post by void_mint »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #100
void_mint wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So Terraform manages to become the recommended DevOps tool for most cloud providers It's not the recommended devops tool for any cloud provider. > and now they won't even accept PRs to improve and add features from the community? Random people writing code doesn't make that code valuable or of any sound quality. They have employees whose jobs it is to improve and add features to their software. > Clouds should be a…

> It's not the recommended devops tool for any cloud provider. The Deployment manager templates under CFT for GCP specifically state they recommend the Terraform modules. It is also the first provider listed under Oracle cloud. Pretty much every cloud list it as the preferred DevOps tool. > Random people writing code doesn't make that code valuable or of any sound quality. They have employees whose jobs it is to impr…

> The Deployment manager templates under CFT for GCP specifically state they recommend the Terraform modules.

So, "It's listed as the recommended tool for GCP" means "it's the recommended tool for any cloud provider" ???????????????

Both Azure and AWS maintain and promote their own resource provisioning systems. Also you just totally ignored the GCP Deployment manager templates listed on the same page. Meaning, Terraform is _an option_.

> It doesn't mean that it isn't. You act like only employees can write valuable code with sound quality, when in fact the opposite could be true and often is.

The average quality of an internal employee will be higher than the average quality of a random person submitting PRs, because you'd fire your employees if they weren't. This is common sense.

> The concept of a cloud provider is not anything unique. Hence why there are so many of them implementing their own API. Cloud providers budgets are heavily skewed to marketing, because if everyone could get the rates available through OVH, Hetzner, etc while still getting the same features through their own 3+node zero-config cluster then no one would pay the outrageous prices of AWS, Azure, etc.

The concept of a paid service isn't unique. Adding features to a paid service to increase users' engagement and/or acceptable price is normal and good. Again, common sense.

Re: Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

#103

Post by raffraffraff »

junon wrote: post #95
leetrout wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a conversation with my coworkers when I worked there about being upfront with folks that we wouldn't review or accept their PR and stop leaving people hanging (this was on the TFE provider). I'm glad this was added. I stand by my statement then and now: there is nothing worse than contributing to something open source and then have your PR completely ignored.

> I stand by my statement then and now: there is nothing worse than contributing to something open source and then have your PR completely ignored Really? Nothing worse?

Jock itch is pretty bad. Might even be worse.

Re: Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

#104

Post by Zababa »

dtech wrote: post #85
loeg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are rejecting all PRs, that doesn't require skilled review -- a bot can do it.

Are you really open source in spirit at that point though?

"open source" doesn't mean "accepting drive-by contributions from unknown authors". "open source" means "open source". If you want to apply your patches, you're free to fork the repo.

Re: Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

#105

Post by sockpuppet_12 »

strken wrote: post #65
qbasic_forever wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people think that just doing unsolicitied work and pressing a button means the people on the other side are obligated to spend time reviewing and integrating it. GitHub has weirdly unbalanced open source contributions with a heavier burden and burnout on maintainers. Contributing to a project doesn't mean just slinging code and calling it good. Communicate--talk to the people maintaining the co…

The overhead of working out where the people who maintain the code are is usually higher than just fixing the bug I found. This is doubly true if the bug is bad enough that I need to temporarily fork the repo to deal with it. In the same way that the maintainers don't have an obligation to review my PR, I don't have an obligation to go find them and learn how to use IRC/bugzilla/mattermost/mailing lists/smoke signals…

In usual circumstances, free work is generally appreciated. But I imagine it's a bit different with code, as most people prefer writing code to reading it.

Re: Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

#106

Post by sockpuppet_12 »

lloydatkinson wrote: post #90
dagss wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ARM is a complete joke, and Bicep compiles down to ARM. (More details: ARM is simply a dumb script that says "do this, do that", it doesn't interact with your cloud resources in any smart way. As one example: You can download a template for an Azure SQL instance from the Azure portal. That template will then randomly fail to execute, because it contains two "configuration" child resources of Azure SQL, which ARM will…

Sounds like you're just angry I don't like the same technologies as you. I don't need terraform because I only work with Azure. What are you going to do to stop me?

I think he's more angry at ARM templates than anything else. I'm learning terraform to work with Azure. Primarily because one day I might need to work with any other cloud provider and I don't want to learn 3 different DSLs when I might be able to get away with learning 1. But even that sounds like wishful thinking as I write it out.

Re: Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

#107

Post by sockpuppet_12 »

void_mint wrote: post #84
encryptluks2 wrote: post #33

So Terraform manages to become the recommended DevOps tool for most cloud providers and now they won't even accept PRs to improve and add features from the community? I think there are greater issues here, first that we centralized around so few major providers instead of improving tooling to scale to any hosting provider and 2 that we let hosting providers create so much abstraction that each one requires an entirel…

> So Terraform manages to become the recommended DevOps tool for most cloud providers It's not the recommended devops tool for any cloud provider. > and now they won't even accept PRs to improve and add features from the community? Random people writing code doesn't make that code valuable or of any sound quality. They have employees whose jobs it is to improve and add features to their software. > Clouds should be a…

>It's not the recommended devops tool for any cloud provider.

What is the recommended devops tool for azure in your opinion?

Re: Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

#108

Post by strken »

sockpuppet_12 wrote: post #105
strken wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overhead of working out where the people who maintain the code are is usually higher than just fixing the bug I found. This is doubly true if the bug is bad enough that I need to temporarily fork the repo to deal with it. In the same way that the maintainers don't have an obligation to review my PR, I don't have an obligation to go find them and learn how to use IRC/bugzilla/mattermost/mailing lists/smoke signals…

In usual circumstances, free work is generally appreciated. But I imagine it's a bit different with code, as most people prefer writing code to reading it.

In the case of a bug in software you didn't write, you can spend hours reading and debugging a foreign codebase, and end up writing nothing but a one-line fix and a ten-line test case.

Re: Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

#109

Post by void_mint »

sockpuppet_12 wrote: post #107
void_mint wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So Terraform manages to become the recommended DevOps tool for most cloud providers It's not the recommended devops tool for any cloud provider. > and now they won't even accept PRs to improve and add features from the community? Random people writing code doesn't make that code valuable or of any sound quality. They have employees whose jobs it is to improve and add features to their software. > Clouds should be a…

>It's not the recommended devops tool for any cloud provider. What is the recommended devops tool for azure in your opinion?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-resource-manage...

Per their documentation, this is Azure's recommended devops/resource management tool.

Re: Terraform is currently not reviewing community pull requests

#110

Post by takeda »

chousuke wrote: post #99
takeda wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ansible wasn't designed for IaC, but configuration management, and even at that wasn't the best tool. What made it popular was that it was easiest to start with, but that's pretty much all of its strength compared to the competition.

Ansible is sort of bad at everything, and does a few things decently. I use it as an orchestrator / clusterssh replacement, but for configuration management it makes me nervous because I can't trust it to just not break for stupid reasons.

Last time I used it on Amazon Linux 2 with packer. It worked, but 1/3 of the time it failed with some strange error about yum database corruption.

I suspect what was happening is that Amazon Linux on start run yum to apply all available updates, and ansible was not respect yum locks, which is very surprising given that Ansible came from Red Hat so they should have known how important locking is for yum.

I ended up using salt (which has its own set of issues) and never looked back.

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