Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere” • Hacker News Board

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#101

Post by ugh » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:05 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #67

hnal943 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's lots of ways to protect yourself when renting to strangers. The fact that EJ and others do not avail themselves of the necessary insurance, etc. is what's reckless.

As has been pointed out multiple times, there is probably no insurance policy that would cover your apartment if you rent it out with AirBNB. Renter's insurance won't cover it, and individuals can't get the kind of insurance hotels get because they don't own the property. And if you meet the classification of a hotel, then there's a good chance you're breaking the law in some places. You can't get insurance while bre…

Why wouldn’t insurances want to insure, though? This is a rare event, insurances love rare events. One problem might be AirBnB’s lack of transparency: Insurances have to know exactly how rare something is. They currently only know it’s rare, not how rare it is.

(That said, it seems they could start with a relatively high estimate and adjust it up- or downwards when they start insuring, depending on how often and how much they have to pay. It seems like this would be something insurances excel it, seeing as it’s how they make their money. I’m sure at least AirBnB could work something out with insurances.)

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#102

Post by gojomo » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:05 PM UTC

moonlighter wrote: post #93

gojomo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paradoxically, these incidents could solidify AirBnb's lead. If they've been clumsy in the past; they can't afford to anymore. They have the money to implement a leading solution, and they have to become synonymous with the best protections to get the most listings/searches. And, the components of a potential solution – costly one-time background checks, longer reputation histories, insurance pooling, deep experience…

"costly one-time background checks" and "all benefit from scale" sound like an oxymoron to me. Implementing all the suggestions you listed would significantly cut into their revenues and make their business model obsolete.

High-fixed setup costs, low marginal costs make a defensible moat. That's the classic case of a returns-to-scale monopoly.

Background checks are a one-time cost per new participant.

It may be costly (in money or time) to set up your initial account, and acquire a positive reputation via a long history of mutual reviews... but then you're part of a large pre-vetted community.

Do you then want to go through that procedure many times with every new upstart? Or just once with the largest market?

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#103

Post by ulisesroche » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:05 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #91

ulisesroche wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can go on forever about possible interpretations, but all those quotations are making you look bad. What proof do you have that EJ is "EJ", and that Troy is "Troy" and that this is a "conspiracy" and were an "angry mob of white knights"?

Angry mob of white knights? Are you sure you're replying to the right comment?

It's just another assumption. But again, what makes you think there's a lawyer involved too?

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#104

Post by j_baker » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:05 PM UTC

smanek wrote: post #6

""" Airbnb, while pointing out that the incident was the first of its kind out of some 2 million stays booked since the company's founding in 2008 ... """ source: http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011... Either USAToday misinterpreted/misreported a quote, Airbnb lied to a reporter on the record, or Troy is making up his story. I can't see any other way to reconcile the evidence put forth.

You know, I just now realized something. When I was hosting with AirBNB, I had some guests who had their car broken into. When I emailed support, they told me this was the first time something like this had happened. It makes me wonder how many other "firsts" they've had.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#105

Post by chimeracoder » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:06 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #68

timr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But there's something "off" about EJ's position here. Why is a vandalized apartment leaving her homeless?" Put yourself in the position of a person who has just had their apartment burglarized (remember: they stole her personal documents and valuables) and their keys stolen by probable drug addicts. Also, remember that the police have arrested one of the vandals, but probably not all of them. Ignoring, for the momen…

Most everyone on HN is going to agree with what you are saying: that there is a reasonable narrative in which "EJ" is unable to return to her home due to fear. As a recent victim of a comparatively pathetic "violent" crime: that is absolutely something you are concerned about. And that's before we even get to the topic of "can EJ repair the damage done to her home without diminishing the expected return from a settle…

Possibly, yes. But since there are so many other potentially fishy aspects of the story, let's spend our time focusing on those instead of this one.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#106

Post by tptacek » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:07 PM UTC

ulisesroche wrote: post #103

tptacek wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angry mob of white knights? Are you sure you're replying to the right comment?

It's just another assumption. But again, what makes you think there's a lawyer involved too?

A lawyer wouldn't be your first call after the police if this happened to you? It sure would be mine.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#107

Post by mkramlich » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:07 PM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #53

AirBnB never should have set up such an unsafe system, but surely the decisions of the renters are at fault as well. I personally would never even consider allowing people who were not carefully screened by myself to have free reign with my property. I'm pretty sure this is getting large enough to garner the attention of politicians. That may be a positive thing, since AirBnB and their clients are apparently not taki…

My take is the #1 fault is the alledged scumbags who did alleged bad things to the host's property. The #2 fault is the hosts for showing such utter naivete and ignorance about (a) what to leave in the apartment, and (b) understanding what could possibly happen when the strangers stay there and accepting those risks as the flip side of the coin. To the extent AirBnB has done anything wrong or imperfect, it's farther down the list than these actors in the drama. And all of this assumes that the alleged incidents happened exactly as they were portrayed, and were not in fact fraudulent "hit jobs" -- an issue that has not been settled yet, or rather should not be settled in any reasonably skeptical person's mind, given the sum total and nature of the "evidence" and the market context.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#108

Post by tptacek » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:09 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #105

tptacek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most everyone on HN is going to agree with what you are saying: that there is a reasonable narrative in which "EJ" is unable to return to her home due to fear. As a recent victim of a comparatively pathetic "violent" crime: that is absolutely something you are concerned about. And that's before we even get to the topic of "can EJ repair the damage done to her home without diminishing the expected return from a settle…

Possibly, yes. But since there are so many other potentially fishy aspects of the story, let's spend our time focusing on those instead of this one.

Huh? "Fishy"? Please stop talking like that. Neither Airbnb nor "EJ" owes us the complete objective retelling of exactly what has transpired between them. When "EJ" doesn't recount absolutely every fact that isn't completely favorable to her cause of action, that doesn't make her a crook. She isn't on trial, and you aren't a jury.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#109

Post by ebaysucks » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:15 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #36

officemonkey wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have a spiffy web-site and app that does a nice job showing off properties and assisting you in finding the properties you want. But yeah, they are essentially just middlemen. They benefit from keeping the buyer and seller apart until the deal is done and they get their cut.

And that exact benefit is the source of trouble.

Indeed. The one way for them to lock in market leadership forever is to drop the fees and make their money on payment processing, insurance offers, user screening and safety deposits that renters may or may not decide to opt in for.

This would allow users to contact and vet each other before agreeing on a sale while still having some profit streams.

Basically AirBnb would become a specialized Craigslist on steroids, but it can only be done if the founders want to build a long term business netting them a few million each year rather than a VC darling to be flipped for a couple of billion dollars.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#110

Post by tptacek » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:16 PM UTC

dspillett wrote: post #43

masklinn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is a vandalized apartment leaving her homeless? I would guess the vandalization of her flat leads her to not feeling "safe" there anymore, and thus not being able to live there.

Also, depending on the damage done the house might be fit for occupation until some work it done.

It's also possible that she's been advised that having the place fixed up herself might establish an unnecessarily low basis for damages; fixing things up herself requires her to fit repairs into her own current budget. Think this is far fetched? It's exactly how every security deposit negotiation works, and why you should repair, clean, and document everything needed to return your apartment to reasonable condition when your lease is up.

Maximizing the amount of compensation she is getting for her damages doesn't make her a crook. It's entirely reasonable for her to want the most graceful restoration of her home possible.