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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

fda.gov

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#101

Post by mikro2nd »

ortusdux wrote: post #63
acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. I want to know when insurance companies will start adjusting rates.

Already happening here in South Africa. https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/discovery-warned-higher...

Note that they're NOT mandating/requiring vaccination (which may turn out to violate constitutional rights here) -- it's still the customer's choice -- but you're gonna pay more, just like if you smoke tobacco.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#102

Post by bopbeepboop »

cle wrote: post #59
c7DJTLrn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concern? Why? The virus is under control in countries where the vaccine rollout has been swift. Why do you sound so keen to force something on people that they don't want, regardless of their reasons? Shouldn't people have the right to choose what they take? If people can lose their jobs over it then clearly they don't have that right - that's a form of coercion/blackmail. I think the focus on a small minority of peo…

> Shouldn't people have the right to choose what they take? It's not this simple. Not taking a vaccine during a pandemic has negative externalities, since you're increasing the risk of infection and death of those you interact with, you increase the likelihood of consuming scarce resources (such as ICU beds), etc. I largely agree with you, but framing it as a simple "individual choice" issue is reductive at best.

All of those externalities apply to driving a car.

Are you saying it would be legal to ban cars for those reasons?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#104

Post by JulianMorrison »

tasogare wrote: post #34
cbg0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely than not, they'll just move the goalposts farther and find a different excuse for not getting it.

Exactly like governments are moving goalposts with their measures: one lockdown... second one... wait no, a third one is necessary; herd immunity will be reached at 70% vaccination + infected, ah no actually only vaccinated count and it's 90%... did I say 99%? No, it will be 100%! Meanwhile in Japan: people living freely their lives with no lockdowns, no forced vaccination, no vaccine pass. Another model is possible…

You have an overly rosy picture of Japan. Their population is very compliant and already used to masks as a way to avoid spreading disease, and they are still experiencing a surge in cases that has caused them to declare a state of emergency in the Tokyo area, and remove spectators from the paralympics.

Herd immunity happens when a disease can't spread because all people surrounding the infected person have enough immediate immunity to stifle its progress. Delta seems to be able to spread to people in the gap before the immune system recognises it, so it may be something that can't be stopped by herd immunity.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#105

Post by peakaboo »

bluGill wrote: post #66
throwawaysea wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a pivot for me, particularly since I got the vaccine, but I think there are legitimate reasons to be hesitant and removing one reason doesn’t invalidate other reasons people may bring up. The big one in my mind is how do Pfizer, BioNTech, or the FDA validate safety of the vaccine over the long term? For instance what if it turns out that something approved today turns out to be carcinogenic twenty years from…

mRNA is a basic building block of life. Your body makes and breaks it down constantly. If there was any worry about it life itself wouldn't be possible.

That's like saying water is a building block of life so any product with water is safe.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#106

Post by giantg2 »

eynsham wrote: post #96
tohnjitor wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FDA approval is mostly meaningless. Just this year they approved an Alzheimer's treatment which ended clinical trials early because it didn't work. https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/06/08/th...

This suggests FDA approval doesn’t say much about whether something works—presumably it still says something about safety. At any rate, whether or not FDA approval means much, to a certain subset of people it ostensibly did, since the objection that there was only an EUA was fairly common.

If the treatment is ineffective and carries any side effects, then it is a safety issue. The whole "do no harm" principle means that you are subjecting a patient to unnecessary risks and side effects with no possible benefit.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#107

Post by clarkmoody »

hunterb123 wrote: post #98
felipellrocha wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge odds. People were anti-vaxxers before, and were just looking for an excuse to justify their position. Goal post moving is a thing to be expected nowadays

Question long-term effects of mRNA vaccines, anti-vaxxer! Question certain "green" program spending, climate-denier! Question voting or border security, racist! Question certain political figures, conspiracy theorist! Issues are much more nuanced than a one word dismissal used to dehumanize the dissenter. You can be hesitant of these new mRNA vaccines but for classic vaccines that use dead / weakened viruses, that do…

Putting political labels on people is a vital step in the divide & rule strategy: keep the people hating each other while the power elite pull the strings.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#108

Post by zip1234 »

ibejoeb wrote: post #35
Saint_Genet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the US military can now mandate it as they've said they will. Time to see how many of the people posting on social media that they'd rather take a dishonorable discharge will follow through.

It will likely be a medical separation.

Unlikely unless there is a legit medical reason not to take it. Not taking the vaccine would directly affect readiness.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#109

Post by bcatanzaro »

Maxburn wrote: post #44
ceejayoz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government isn't compelling me to get vaccinated, either.

Yes they are, all sorts of "freedoms" hinge on it now.

You can’t drive a car without a license for the same reason: unlicensed drivers kill people at higher rates. Just like unvaccinated people kill others at higher rates.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#110

Post by mikro2nd »

giantg2 wrote: post #8
eganist wrote: post #2

My biggest concern now is around seeing those who hedged their willingness to get the vaccine on its approval instead find a new reason not to get it. So with that in mind, I'm much more keen on seeing how employers will decide on vaccination mandates now that at least one vaccine is fully approved. Any news yet on whether any more employers are likely implementing mandates (if they haven't already this morning) base…

"...instead find a new reason not to get it." Or continue an existing reason: "Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes."

My brother had that (quite legitimate, really) concern. So he delayed vaccination. Now he has Covid. Doctors talking of amputating his toes because of blood clots. Death is not the worst thing to be feared in this.
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