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Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

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Re: Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

#101
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how is a NFT any more arbitrary than a hallmark card? both are "artistic" to a certain degree, completely useless after the purchase and initial exchange.

I would contend that a Hallmark card has usefulness after being exchanged. I can’t hang an NFT in my house. And doing so with Hallmark cards has tangible benefits to my well being. (the joy of seeing a thoughtful card with personal meaning, conversation starter if company is over, etc) Perhaps something will be invented to reproduce that experience for NFTs, but I haven’t seen it yet. edit: Format and speeling

I wouldn't personally buy an NFT for those purposes, but tons of NFT owners buy them to be able to use them as profile pictures. Yes, you can put any arbitrary JPEG as your pfp including an NFT owned by someone else, but it'd feel the same as wearing replicas of branded clothing (and people mostly just don't).

That might not seem as meaningful as hanging them in your house, but I've watched it become that meaningful for a ton of people (as "irrational" as I think both NFTs and Hallmark cards are).

Re: Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

#102
It's wild to me the top comments on HN are still "crypto has no actual use case," despite the literal billions of actual dollars ($) being transacted every day through projects like Uniswap, Axie Inifinity (a video game), and the plethora of DeFi apps and NFT projects out there.

Despite the massive UX problems that still exist.

It's willful ignorance at this point. Like, I get it, I was a crypto skeptic for a good while, I still think Bitcoin on its own is massively over-valued and doesn't actually accomplish it's original stated goals. But we're way past Bitcoin at this point, the evolution has been neck-breaking in speed. At this point, it's pretty obvious what problems it solves if you actually take an hour to earnestly learn about what's in the space (especially outside of finance).

If your best take on it is "it's all a scam", I highly encourage you to crack open some blog articles and actually explore some projects before writing off what I'm 100% confident at this point is the future of the internet.

Re: Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

#103
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, when I realized you don't actually "own" it through any licenses it made me sour on the whole idea. Is there a reason why people couldn't be granted a license to do whatever they wanted with an NFT? Seems kind of arbitrary to do so, but I'm sure there's a reason why it's like that.

Buying a physical painting doesn’t give you any licenses to the artwork itself either. Just because you buy a modern painting at auction for $30 million doesn’t give you rights to start printing T-shirts of the art.

Yes it does. You own the art. (?)

For that price, you're getting all the rights to it in perpetuity.

Re: Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

#104

It's wild to me the top comments on HN are still "crypto has no actual use case," despite the literal billions of actual dollars ($) being transacted every day through projects like Uniswap, Axie Inifinity (a video game), and the plethora of DeFi apps and NFT projects out there. Despite the massive UX problems that still exist. It's willful ignorance at this point. Like, I get it, I was a crypto skeptic for a good wh…

Please enlighten us: provide resources

I am sure the HN community will be open to actual proof - not marketing material please

Note: The fact that this comment was downvoted says something

Re: Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

#105
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NFT is sold under the false pretence that is somehow connected with some object of art, when in fact there isn't any such connection. This is what makes NFTs a scam.

Many artists would disagree. The token is conceptually tied to the artwork. This is especially true with digital & software-driven work embedded within the blockchain, such as Deafbeef's tokens[1]. These issues are not new to crypto. Plenty of art is only 'conceptually' tied to their distributed editions. For example: an artist or photographer may own a digital master or photographic negative, and from that they may…

How do these 'conceptual ties' work? For example, suppose I create an NFT of the Eiffel Tower. When and how does that particular NFT become conceptually tied to the Eiffel Tower exactly? I don't understand.

Re: Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

#106
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'd like to jump on that bandwagon, if you have any leads please share them. Best.

You can go down the list of projects on https://coingecko.com/ and they always need devs. Every project in crypto is remote-OK ("decentralized"). I know one of the people doing https://dxdao.eth.link/ DXDao is a collective of devs that work to build decentralized applications ("Dapps"). The decentralized treasury (~$30million USD) funds proposals that anyone can make. They do weekly calls. You can just join their Key…

thank you for responding with this info. i had no idea dxdao even existed and now this will be my first answer to any curious devs!

Re: Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

#107
post #14

Somewhere, a CryptoKitties owner is crying. Andy Warhol's Marilyn artwork isn't anything interesting for me, but it's clearly represents a point in art history. I can't value NFT's as long as they're digital only, non-fungibility does not create value all by itself IMO, but I understand the historical aspects of a CryptoPunk. So Visa is the first to do it in corporate world and that's a thing, but anyone following wo…

You don't see this as Andy Warhol's concepts taken to their logical conclusion?

I do.

Re: Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

#108
post #95
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the internet in the beginning as well. For the average person in 1996/98/20 computers and the internet did not offer anything. Today cryto provides the only way to perform a money transaction outside of the censored markets. An example, onlyfans, poor hub decided to ditch a type of content to please visa/mastercard. Cryto would allow society to ignore forced morals on money transactions. If what onlyfans pro…

Are you suggesting that it is only useful to criminals? I am surprised you did not even mention the poor on 3rd world countries - unless this is too, a marketing stunt by the crypto community.

I didn't mention criminals but I did refer to onlyfans and pornhub which are real businesses in a legal sense but get refused credit card processing because they are taboo topics.

Criminals, the third world, a certain class of the first world all users use it.

Who knows what the future holds but the next few years might be more marketing vs technology improvements in cryto. The problem with adoption is a big one to tackle next and moves like this help.

Re: Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

#109
I think the NFT skepticism is understandable. All attention seems be going out to a very low amount of questionable art going around for a few 100K or even millions.

Browse actual NFT sites and you'll notice there's zero bids on the typical NFT. Clearly, it's not really working as a new market model. Yet.

Further, not really securing copyrights to the art itself I consider a design flaw. Without it, your ownership is make-belief.

All of that said, I'd still advocate to zoom out a little and keep an open mind to the idea. The way I see it, these are some of the first experiments in applying digital scarcity to the creative space. This first version being admittedly terrible.

Fast forward a few years and it may very well have evolved into something more sustainable and normalized. The reason I would hope for that to happen is that it may slash some very powerful gatekeepers.

When you're a photographer, right now you may need to license your work to Getty images, for pennies, them fully dictating the terms. When you're a small musician, you need to get on Spotify, them fully dictating the terms.

In theory, and hopefully in practice, next-gen NFTs can provide an alternative, a more fair market-based approach not depending on middlemen. Or at least less so.

The other advantage comes from digital property being programmable. For example, when minting an NFT, you can indicate there to be 5 copies, and you want 10% of any future resale of the piece.

You can't do that in any practical way using old school copyrights. Digital property is superior in that sense.

And there's the potential of cross pollination. Say a popular game commits to supporting NFTs. And in this war game your tank has a unique skin, that nobody else has. Instead of the game maker deciding on all skins, anybody can make them and sell them.

That would be another gate keeper slashed, and power returned to the community. Just this silly idea alone could create an enormous new market. There would be many more such new markets if/when NFTs become interoperable, instead of isolated.

We really need to leave behind this thought that when it's digital, it's worthless. Our lives are digital now. In the future, you have a digital wallet on your phone containing lots of items. Your money. Digital creative works. Maybe tokens from your favorite football club. Who knows?

Last, I find it really ironic how on an article like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28274026

...consensus is that it's a very bad thing that 5 companies own all of the digital landscape. Uniform agreement. Whilst at the same time, rejecting anything "crypto".

Crypto is the only technology and movement that I can think of to have a chance at breaking down oversized gate keepers. Half of hackernews is complaining about big tech: tracking, lack of free speech, milking users, oversized power, creators that can't monetize, killing competition by acquiring small players, hording patents, the list goes on.

Can or will crypto fix all of this? No. Probably not even close. But it's the best chance we got.

I'd like my downvotes now, please, am going to mint it.

Re: Visa Buys CryptoPunk #7610

#110
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NFT is sold under the false pretence that is somehow connected with some object of art, when in fact there isn't any such connection. This is what makes NFTs a scam.

Many artists would disagree. The token is conceptually tied to the artwork. This is especially true with digital & software-driven work embedded within the blockchain, such as Deafbeef's tokens[1]. These issues are not new to crypto. Plenty of art is only 'conceptually' tied to their distributed editions. For example: an artist or photographer may own a digital master or photographic negative, and from that they may…

> The distributed work is valued not because of the material (a piece of paper) or its contents (a rendered image), because it was distributed and signed by the artist's hand. Anybody could photocopy that print to produce the same rendered contents, or even print their own copy if they have access to a high resolution file and inkjet printer, but the copy would be worth no value, because it did not come from the artist's hand.

But that would require a distribution of NFT in excess of 1.

People are not minting 50 or 500 NFTs which are all the same as in your example.

People are minting 1 NFT and selling it . At that point one person (the buyer) has the original and the rest of people on the internet just screenshots it to have a 1:1 identical piece of art, which are all just the same as the original.

Plus your example also forgets one important element: the scarcity of the time and the social relationships of the artist. The 50 printed and signed editions are considered worthy because the artist had to subtract time from whatever other activity they had planned in order to sign the copies.

Once you make the process of "signing NFTs" automatized (like for example making a transaction on the blockchain via smart contract) the whole magic and scarcity of it disappears.

Maybe you could secure the scarcity by making it expensive for the artist to mint the NFT, but then they'd be the ones protesting and not adopting the tech.

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