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Apple now holding more cash than USA

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#101

Post by jodrellblank »

hugh3 wrote: post #49
grannyg00se wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I agree that the number is pretty much meaningless. The government can easily increase their operating cash balance simply by incurring more debt. It's the debt, and the deficit that seem most relevant to my untrained mind. In fact, if you want to compare with a corporation, I'd compare the entity's deficit as a percentage of its revenue.

The government can easily increase their operating cash balance simply by incurring more debt. Except, and this is the whole reason that we currently have big problems, the Government currently can't legally incur more debt, unless Congress passes an increase to the debt ceiling. So cash-on-hand is currently a serious issue.

And so trillion dollar changes to a major world economy of 310 million people are made by last minute bickering.

It's boggling.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#102

Post by refurb »

dpark wrote: post #96
refurb wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. Companies aren't free to set transfer prices. The IRS has many rules on how much a company can charge a foreign unit for a product (and vice verse). That method of tax avoidance was closed a long time ago.

It was not closed, it was reduced. Companies are still doing it. They wouldn't continue if it wasn't beneficial to do so. US regulations also don't do anything to transfer prices in other countries. Google apparently pays something like 2.4% tax on their foreign profits because they funnel them all to the Bahamas.

I won't argue that companies are still trying to reduce taxes through transfer prices. However, any company that tries to avoid US taxes through transfer price schemes is not going to get very far. I have no doubt that Google is funneling a lot of revenue through the Bahamas, but they must have setup the off-shore corporation in such a way as to fall outside the jurisdiction of the IRS. To say that they are only paying 2.4% on "foreign profits" means nothing. If that's what they are supposed to pay, then nothing is wrong right? Google is an international corporation.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#103

Post by funthree »

thematt wrote: post #87
drcube wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google are foreign corporations? Also, I know people who live and work in foreign countries and haven't stepped foot in the US for decades who still pay tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to the US each year in taxes. So yeah, it's unfair that large, American corporations are somehow exempt. I'm as tax-phobic as any red-blooded yank, but if we are going to demand ever increasing government service…

Apple and Google are not foreign corporations, but they own foreign subsidiaries which are responsible for doing business in their respective countries.

Apple and Google are not foreign corporations

You said it.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#104

Post by prodigal_erik »

jodrellblank wrote: post #101
hugh3 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government can easily increase their operating cash balance simply by incurring more debt. Except, and this is the whole reason that we currently have big problems, the Government currently can't legally incur more debt, unless Congress passes an increase to the debt ceiling. So cash-on-hand is currently a serious issue.

And so trillion dollar changes to a major world economy of 310 million people are made by last minute bickering. It's boggling.

Yeah, it's a titanic game of chicken between the dominant parties. As The Economist put it, "biggest unforced error in history still on schedule".

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/07/democrac...

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#105

Post by gnaritas »

tomelders wrote: post #21
lawlit wrote: post #16

What will happen to the American if the congress does not vote on the rise ?

No one can say for sure. It's a doomsday scenario that no one is really prepared for. The only thing anyone can say with any certainty is that the next president of the USA will be a Republican, because that's what this is all about. Destroy the economy, blame the incumbent, and scoop up the next election.

> The only thing anyone can say with any certainty is that the next president of the USA will be a Republican

And they'd be lying.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#106

Post by tomjen3 »

ck2 wrote: post #60

Steve Jobs only pays 15% taxes which is probably part of it. (seriously, this is a fact http://seekingalpha.com/article/183086-steve-jobs-thrives-on... ) Take money from USA consumers, pour it into China manufacturing. They certainly aren't the only ones doing it but add them all up and you'll start to understand the problem.

And how many millons does he pay more than you?

Stop whining about the wealthy. Steve earned his money, you have no right to them.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#107

Post by tomjen3 »

nhaehnle wrote: post #54

A corporation holding cash means they're not investing as much as they could according to supply-side economic thinking. This should make people reflect on the state of the economy. While it's true that some companies just like to hoard cash (e.g. Microsoft), this may just be the symptom of a bigger problem. With consumers low on cash due to the recession, it simply makes no sense to invest any more. This in turn gua…

Consumers can't spend money unless they are also producing (where else would they get their money?).

People generally like to consume, so the question is not how do we get them to consume more -- they want to do that already -- but how do we make it possible for them to produce more.

And while credit can be used to start producing (like you use a battery to start a car), it is not, and should not be, used in perpetuity to fund operations -- doing so isn't sustainable.

At the same time we wilify the rich, and those who are the most productive (see examples of how people treat Steve elsewhere in this thread). While there are certainly criminals among the rich (maybe even more than among the general population) this doesn't mean that we should blame all of them (you don't blame all African-Americans, even though they also have a higher crime rate).

As for paying their fair share -- they already do, they pay more tax than most people do and get a lot less from it (how much does Steve get in food stamps?).

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#108

Post by tty »

tomjen3 wrote: post #106
ck2 wrote: post #60

Steve Jobs only pays 15% taxes which is probably part of it. (seriously, this is a fact http://seekingalpha.com/article/183086-steve-jobs-thrives-on... ) Take money from USA consumers, pour it into China manufacturing. They certainly aren't the only ones doing it but add them all up and you'll start to understand the problem.

And how many millons does he pay more than you? Stop whining about the wealthy. Steve earned his money, you have no right to them.

>Steve earned his money, you have no right to them.

Are you implying Steve earned all the money Apple has?

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#109

Post by funthree »

nhaehnle wrote: post #92
nkassis wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's why I believe the economy in the shitters : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money Money needs to move and it's not right now.

I agree. The question is: how do you fix it? In the case of the big corporations, for example, I see no direct, freedom-compatible way of getting them to spend that money. The only way I see that might work (though here Apple might still be a special case) is to create an environment where businesses see an increase in demand as an incentive for increased investment. Then the question becomes where that demand should…

I could think of a number of ideas that would be severely unpopular.

One idea: Start taxing people based on their net worth. It'd be for the greater good after all, right?

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#110

Post by tomjen3 »

kwis wrote: post #85
fourspace wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify, I meant over the long term. If you're not making profits or at least breaking even over the long term (spending The problem with the US is that they aren't just borrowing in a low season, they're borrowing every season.

If my business could borrow at the same rates as the US government I would take on as much debt as possible, in perpetuity.

But you would properly build or create something with it.

That is the problem the US have -- they don't create anything.

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