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Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

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Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#101

Post by BasDirks »

yalogin wrote: post #32

What a failure of the US armed forces here. 20 damn years staying in the country with the only 2 goal - to help Afghans build an army and help defend themselves and to eradicate the Taliban. They failed miserably in both. Trillions spent and many lost lives. Why would we ever pour money into such a terrible, incompetent system? Of course, the cycle keeps repeating itself and we keep growing the military.

The US played a pivotal role in saving our asses over in Europe, and we are eternally grateful, but ever since, the US has been bad at war. It's not the firepower, it's not the soldiers, and it's not the organization. These are top notch. It's the **ing politicians dragging young men and women into wars not worth fighting.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#102

Post by CapricornNoble »

pishpash wrote: post #70
CapricornNoble wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>Why would we ever pour money into such a terrible, incompetent system? Not that the US DoD is in any way a model of efficiency, but I suspect you are vastly underestimating the difficulty of the problem set. Over the past 200 years, the British, Soviet, and American empires have all failed to pacify Afghanistan. Probably the Mongols and Alexander the Great struggled too, I need to dig into the history of those cam…

Certainly, Afghanistan was for the containment of China/Russia and Iraq was for the containment of Iran/Russia. Still, were those really successes?

>>>Still, were those really successes?

Probably not. There's definitely something we are doing wrong. Personally I look at the Russian intervention in Syria as a model for "hybrid warfare done -r-i-g-h-t- well enough". I think they manage to prop up client states, accomplish strategic objectives, and do it all without completely breaking the bank.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#103

Post by pishpash »

NonContro wrote: post #98
yalogin wrote: post #32

What a failure of the US armed forces here. 20 damn years staying in the country with the only 2 goal - to help Afghans build an army and help defend themselves and to eradicate the Taliban. They failed miserably in both. Trillions spent and many lost lives. Why would we ever pour money into such a terrible, incompetent system? Of course, the cycle keeps repeating itself and we keep growing the military.

US forces abandoned the country 'overnight' - leaving behind all of the military equipment the Taliban would need for their reconquest: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210814-weapon-seizur... Why wasn't all this equipment repatriated or destroyed? Why were the bases just abandoned without proper transition to Afghan Control, so that in some cases they were even looted by civilians? Possible explanations: 1. E…

From the article itself:

"The fall of the last major city [Jalalabad] outside the capital secured for the insurgents the roads connecting Afghanistan to Pakistan, a Western official said."

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#104

Post by inglor_cz »

throwawaysea wrote: post #37

The Taliban has already entered the capital ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghanistans-taliban-seize-jala... ). This is an utter disaster for Biden and America. We should instead have performed a slower withdrawal and also continued to maintain a military presence permanently at Bagram field. Instead it appears China and Pakistan will welcome a new Taliban government and build new economic ties while America loses i…

It would be shortsighted to try to pin this failure on your disfavored party. During 20 years of Afghanistan, 11 saw a Republican president and 9 saw a Democrat president. Not to mention other allies in the field, who contributed quite a lot to the peacekeeping effort.

Afghanistan isn't a modern country and cannot sustain a modern military or modern governance. Taliban is adapted to local conditions, Afghan govenrment isn't. But modern countries cannot help someone build a tribal fighting force best suited for the most remote mountains on the planet; people tend to replicate their own institutions wherever they go, because they are the only ones that we actually understand.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#105

Post by [deleted] »

pishpash wrote: post #103
NonContro wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US forces abandoned the country 'overnight' - leaving behind all of the military equipment the Taliban would need for their reconquest: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210814-weapon-seizur... Why wasn't all this equipment repatriated or destroyed? Why were the bases just abandoned without proper transition to Afghan Control, so that in some cases they were even looted by civilians? Possible explanations: 1. E…

From the article itself: "The fall of the last major city [Jalalabad] outside the capital secured for the insurgents the roads connecting Afghanistan to Pakistan, a Western official said."

[deleted]

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#106

Post by hulitu »

rvense wrote: post #13
leereeves wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just over a month ago [July 8] the President was actually arguing that the Afghan army would win: Q Is a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan now inevitable? THE PRESIDENT: No, it is not. Q Why? THE PRESIDENT: Because you — the Afghan troops have 300,000 well-equipped — as well-equipped as any army in the world — and an air force against something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable. ... I trust the capacity of the…

It's almost as though the American leadership doesn't really understand Afghanistan.

Of course they do. But is a nice playing ground for the army and the military industrial complex makes good profits. The lifes of milions do not matter for them.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#107

Post by baybal2 »

bawolff wrote: post #53
CapricornNoble wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>Why would we ever pour money into such a terrible, incompetent system? Not that the US DoD is in any way a model of efficiency, but I suspect you are vastly underestimating the difficulty of the problem set. Over the past 200 years, the British, Soviet, and American empires have all failed to pacify Afghanistan. Probably the Mongols and Alexander the Great struggled too, I need to dig into the history of those cam…

Does china really have designs on Afghanistan? For what purpose? (I mean this as an honest question, i don't know that much of the geopolitics of the region)

> Does china really have designs on Afghanistan? For what purpose?

To humiliate America

Other than the Khybar Pass, Afghanistan is a piece of land of very little value, and only 38 million of very proud, and militant people.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#108

Post by hulitu »

clydethefrog wrote: post #8
godelmachine wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just have strong level of petro-dollar support from the Gulf.

And America has "just" the biggest invested army world wide. I guess you need more than money to win the fight sometimes.

Wars are not meant to be win. If you win a war quickly you don't make any profit.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#109

Post by chewz »

NonContro wrote: post #98
yalogin wrote: post #32

What a failure of the US armed forces here. 20 damn years staying in the country with the only 2 goal - to help Afghans build an army and help defend themselves and to eradicate the Taliban. They failed miserably in both. Trillions spent and many lost lives. Why would we ever pour money into such a terrible, incompetent system? Of course, the cycle keeps repeating itself and we keep growing the military.

US forces abandoned the country 'overnight' - leaving behind all of the military equipment the Taliban would need for their reconquest: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210814-weapon-seizur... Why wasn't all this equipment repatriated or destroyed? Why were the bases just abandoned without proper transition to Afghan Control, so that in some cases they were even looted by civilians? Possible explanations: 1. E…

You are too hard on US. Afgan Army had 300 thousand soldiers trained and well equiped.

If Afgans do not want to fight Taliban themselves what US can do?

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#110

Post by hulitu »

throwawaysea wrote: post #37

The Taliban has already entered the capital ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghanistans-taliban-seize-jala... ). This is an utter disaster for Biden and America. We should instead have performed a slower withdrawal and also continued to maintain a military presence permanently at Bagram field. Instead it appears China and Pakistan will welcome a new Taliban government and build new economic ties while America loses i…

This is not a disaster for Bidden. I'm sorry to say it but it is really a victory for Bidden to limit the loss of lives.
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