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WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

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Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#101

Post by rahoulb »

unstatusthequo wrote: post #54
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this technology is that easily circumvented then why is there an expectation that it will be effective at all?

The CASM scanning happens on device, right? At least so we’ve heard. My sense is Apple is trying to keep CASM off their servers. Scanning phones before it gets there was their solution to what I assume is a government demand/ultimatum. “Do this or we repatriate your foreign entity taxes” or some other shit. I too feel that Apple just caved and eroded trust that took decades to build up. The only way this gets sorted…

As I understand it (and I've not spent too long on this, just picking at various articles) - there are two separate things at play here.

Firstly - CASM scanning is done via fingerprinting - the image is fingerprinted on device and when uploaded to iCloud that fingerprint is compared with the "dodgy images" fingerprints and an alert raised if a threshold of matches is reached (what's the threshold and with whom?)

Secondly - there is on-device AI image recognition - when you send an image to someone else (via iMessage or the share sheet) it is checked for nudity and if the iCloud account in question is registered to a 13-year old or younger, their parents are alerted.

In both cases the fingerprinting/scanning is on-device and is triggered by the images leaving the device.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#103

Post by unionpivo »

EveYoung wrote: post #94
viktorcode wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have with this approach is that it introduces on-device scan for images. All what is needed to adopt it to scan for different kind of images is to connect it to different database, say, Winnie the Pooh memes featuring CCP chairman, and boom, jailed dissenters. And ability to scan all images is but a minor firmware update away. Server scanning makes it clear that the company running the servers has acces…

But Apple only plans to scan photos that are synced with iCloud, don't they? So you could just switch to an E2E encrypted alternative and drop iCloud completely.

Yes but it probably took additional code to only scan pictures that are synced to iCloud.

Probably not monumental task, to change to scan every picture.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#104

Post by badRNG »

saddlerustle wrote: post #93
cascom wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/07/catholic-priest-...

Thats not facebook. Some scummy companies do sell user data, but facebook does not and never has.

For Facebook to be selling my data, it isn't necessary that they email a data broker some spreadsheet of my personal data. Selling advertisers access to an incredibly intimate and private picture of my personal life so that they can best exploit my specific life circumstances to unduly influence me is exactly what bothers me about Facebook "selling my data."

To claim that Facebook isn't selling my data is a semantic distinction without a difference at best, and just downright dishonest at worst.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#105

Post by sneak »

nojito wrote: post #42
siscia wrote: post #35

So I was ignorant on the issue and completely against the approach of Apple. Then HN taught me that any company storing images on their infrastructure in the US must report pedophilic images to the US government. At this point, the approach taken by Apple seems like the best one to me, if you don't want to store pictures in clear on your servers. What other technical approach are people advocating for? Another point…

Apple doesn’t scan iCloud for CSAM and refuses to do it. Which is why they researched intensively on differential privacy.

But they could, as iCloud Photos is not e2e (Apple can read all of it) and they turn over the user data on over 30,000 users per year to the USG without even a warrant.

This is just farce.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#106

Post by holstvoogd »

jensensbutton wrote: post #100
holstvoogd wrote: post #65

I'm so fucking tired of these asswipes from companies are a thousand times worse pretending they are better. They literally sell all your data to anyone who wants is, but noooo, apple bad! I'm not saying apple is some kind of bastion of privacy or whatever, but at least they are not selling my data to pay for their spyware vessels. To those 'experts': Get off you high horse and do better. Prove me wrong, go build a w…

You sound like someone lashing out after having their faith challenged. You're even making things up to make yourself feel better about your choices. Calm down. People challenging Apple to do better only benefits you.

I have no love for apple and their crap. I'm just tired of the endless stream of this bullshit fake outrage by the worst perpetrators.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#107

Post by throwaway75 »

Sometimes there are more important things than maintaining individual privacy and this is clearly one of them.

Finding and protecting even a few children from becoming victims of pornography is clearly something that is well worth my not having 100% privacy.

Even knowing that there might be false alarms.

Despite what the strident discourse has been, individual privacy is not some sancrosanct idea that cannot ever be tread upon. There are some things that are far far more important than that.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#108

Post by hughrr »

kowlo wrote: post #71
hughrr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s too late either way. The fact that it even got this far through implementation says the vendor is not on my side. Not only that once capability is revealed it can be required by governments and manipulated under warrant. Particularly in some regimes, mine included, the vendor can be compelled to do something and not say anything. My comment doesn’t even cover how monumentally flawed the entire thing is either. S…

You may struggle to get the same functionality from a Nikon DSLR, but at least it has a better camera. Are you switching from a laptop to a desktop machine? Do you have no use for the portability anymore?

I still have a company issued laptop (Windows based). I don’t need a laptop for personal stuff.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#109

Post by hughrr »

Raed667 wrote: post #66
hughrr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s too late either way. The fact that it even got this far through implementation says the vendor is not on my side. Not only that once capability is revealed it can be required by governments and manipulated under warrant. Particularly in some regimes, mine included, the vendor can be compelled to do something and not say anything. My comment doesn’t even cover how monumentally flawed the entire thing is either. S…

I'm not really sure about feature phones either. Modern Nokia ones come preloaded with Facebook and Whatsapp.

You can remove them from the screen and they are not used unless activated.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#110

Post by badRNG »

iamstupidsimple wrote: post #74
holstvoogd wrote: post #65

I'm so fucking tired of these asswipes from companies are a thousand times worse pretending they are better. They literally sell all your data to anyone who wants is, but noooo, apple bad! I'm not saying apple is some kind of bastion of privacy or whatever, but at least they are not selling my data to pay for their spyware vessels. To those 'experts': Get off you high horse and do better. Prove me wrong, go build a w…

> Go build a fucking app with out trying to steal my contact book. Fuck you Not saying I agree. But people have tried, guess which social networks self-select out of survival?

> But people have tried, guess which social networks self-select out of survival?

Is the implication that a social media network won't survive if it doesn't steal my contacts? Besides, not all social media companies stoop to that level. For all it's problems, Reddit doesn't steal your contacts.

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