Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history • Hacker News Board

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#101

Post by graderjs » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

IanClarke wrote: post #55

turing_complete wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am really not sure if this comment is ironic or not. It reads like it has to be, but today you never know.

I read it as ironic. If it is not then: Wow. Ridiculous statement: "It just goes to show, it's never about gender, just about choices, ambition and how brave you choose to be." Followed by: "Fuck yeah!" --> Ironic in my world, but "the other side ("feminists") seem to have adapted to also address / talk to (deceive/decept) 'more conservative' people with their speech. We try to include/reach each other.

Wow I love how you say that's a ridiculous statement.. to me that's completely true about the world. for you to think that's a ridiculous statement means to me that you are just giving away your power to everyone else letting everyone else set the terms of everything pretending that your choices don't matter and then it doesn't matter your ambition on how brave you out. To me sounds like you just want to start from this disempowered position. By choice no less. But if you take the other path and take personal responsibility? That's empowering. Fuck yeah!

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#102

Post by graderjs » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 3:32 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #77

graderjs wrote: post #9

This is awesome. To get the top job, she: beat up her own mother; then took on the existing alpha 4x her age, and probably larger; then in the next 'peanut session' he had to backdown and let her eat first; and now she walks with an erect tail and goes and shakes trees for fun--It expresses her power. How cool is that! It just goes to show, it's never about gender, just about choices, ambition and how brave you choos…

> then took on the existing alpha 4x her age, and probably larger; Beating up someone four times your own age is only challenging if you're a child.

everyone became obsessed about the beating up thing the brave thing that I saw was never that that was just something she needed to do on the path to get there-- that was awesome because she showed how she's willing to do that to go against the hierarchy of her society. I don't care she beat up her own mother I'm not a monkey and I'm not reading it from a human point of view I'm reading it from a monkey point of view and so that's totally fine that she did that. What I'm saying is brave is that she took on how no women of the office how it's so rare and she became the alpha. what I find you funny is like the uniformity of the responses of people here...in response to this admittedly challenging idea I proposed. But the people are not dealing with the challenging idea on its face in fact they're deliberately misinterpreting it to find something which maybe more or less challenging for them but where they can cultivate I believe more outrage. even though you don't have to interpret it in this way people interpret the comment in the way where they can find the most outrageous thing and respond to it as if that's the truth. But it's not the truth it's only their interpretation which they're pretending to be the truth... almost so they can have something to be outraged about. it's quite a ridiculous interpretation but it makes sense from an ape brain point of view like you know you you see a situation where you want to see an exaggerate the conflict so you can rile yourself up and get ready for conflict. I think the greatest irony here is that in this comment thread everyone's saying oh you know humans are so much better than this and how could this guy say these comments--right?--they're actually all behaving in an ape brain way with his deliberate misinterpretation egging themselves on towards conflict. Haha, it's hilarious!

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#103

Post by graderjs » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 3:35 AM UTC

doitLP wrote: post #31

turing_complete wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am really not sure if this comment is ironic or not. It reads like it has to be, but today you never know.

It is not. Look at poster’s other comments.

Well the final word would on that would have to come from me you couldn't decide that as you wouldn't know if I'm being ironic, cuz even if you see on my other comments each thing I say is an individual choice where I decide exactly what I'm trying to mean. Each thing I say expresses my own free will--and you're not privy to that and you don't know me--and there's no way you can actually know if I'm being ironic or not from seeing my other comments. but in this case yes I am not being ironic in the sense that you think I might be (the gestalt sentiment of the statement) but I am being ironic in another way but because our beliefs are so different most of the people here will probably not see my irony.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#104

Post by serverholic » Sun, Aug 08, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

graderjs wrote: post #98

IanClarke wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gender doesn't matter, except when it matters. We just seem to not be able to agree where and when it matters.

I'm clear on it. I'm against people saying gender matters because it makes me weak and a victim and I can't do anything and therefore people should give to me because of my gender rather than me having to create for myself. so people forget that it's about choices and ambition and bravery just like I said in the monkey comment. I'm for people saying gender matters where it's like whatever qualities you want to associ…

So how do you explain why it's been so long since we've seen an alpha female macaque?

Are you implying that male and female macaque's are the same and that male macaque's are sexist?

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#105

Post by graderjs » Thu, Aug 19, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

DonHopkins wrote: post #24

lm28469 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> beat up her own mother > just about choices and how brave you choose to be Reminds me of Hollywood directors who think "alpha" women characters have to be regular women with all the traits of "toxic masculinity"

That's why I love Chrisjen Avasarala, in The Expanse! But does her potty mouth count as "toxic masculinity"? https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Chrisjen_Avasarala_(TV) >A master politician and maneuverer, she achieved one of the highest ranks in UN government without ever standing for election. She manipulates those in the highest seats of power through careful cultivation of relationships with their spouses, friends, a…

Replying to the above comment, the parent. I think this is fascinating and definitely worth thinking about. But I don't think we should ascribe any list of traits to one thing or another: that too is discriminatory, no? Sort of like finding discrimination by setting up a biased framework from which to then go looking for it. Like setting out to prove the conclusion you've already decided...so I definitely disagree with that, but nevertheless think this is such a fascinating topic. Thank you for this, and good on you for replying here!