Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide • Hacker News Board

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#101

Post by legostormtroopr » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 12:03 PM UTC

okamiueru wrote: post #89

neartheplain wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Democratic Party and BLM movement entertained calls for police abolition and defunding all summer. Three times as many officers were hospitalized defending the Portland federal courthouse compared to those defending the Capitol. BLM grafitti in Portland called for officers there to be defunded, abolished, and killed. The Democratic Party mayor of Portland banned city officers from helping defend the federal court…

From the list of examples, only the Portland grafitti suggesting cops be killed seems valid to me. Defunding police is something I'd assume cops could be very much for, assuming they understand the intention behind. It's isn't a "let's get rid of police" as much as it is "let's reduce the scope of police responsibility". This way, people who might have a mental or drug problem are met by health care professionals, ra…

A motto you have to explain is a bad motto.

To a police officer "Defund the police" sounds a lot like "unemployment".

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#102

Post by ben_w » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 12:04 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #88

ben_w wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > [police being mentally prepared to kill] is a very serious problem... > It is expected. That is part of their role in society. Trivially falsified by the majority of UK police not even having access to firearms. While (fire)armed police do exist in the UK, they are the exception not the rule, and indeed surveys repeatedly show a majority of UK police officers do not even want to be routinely armed. No matter what…

> Trivially falsified by the majority of UK police not even having access to firearms. It happens [0]. This is a thing the police are expected to do from time to time. it does not necessarily mean they have made a criminal mistake. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc... and note After police stopped his vehicle, Charles fled the vehicle and was pursued by police into a shop, where he plac…

I thought I was being clear I was denying that being ready to kill is a necessary part of the role of police in society in general, not trying to assert it never happens. Hence acknowledging UK firearms teams, even while saying they are a minority that most don’t want to be a part of.

Given the context, I don’t even understand why you’re bringing up the death of Rashan Charles — There’s no reason for me to believe those officers were in any sense “ready” to end his life, and some evidence to suggest they were actively trying to prevent it.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#103

Post by altacc » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 12:10 PM UTC

the_why_of_y wrote: post #94

GaryTang wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A multitude more deaths caused by BLM protests. It wasn’t the rosy portrayal the TV showed you. And many people are still living in fear, not knowing when a BLM protest might come burn down their home.

Here is what we have found based on the 7,305 events we’ve collected. The overall levels of violence and property destruction were low, and most of the violence that did take place was, in fact, directed against the BLM protesters. First, police made arrests in 5% of the protest events, with over 8,500 reported arrests (or possibly more). Police used tear gas or related chemical substances in 2.5% of these events. Pr…

I think the mistake we've made is attempting to use facts & figures to dispel a belief ;)

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#104

Post by qwerty456127 » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 12:11 PM UTC

netizen-936824 wrote: post #97

qwerty456127 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you tell if someone smoked pot on Sunday rather than Monday on a Wednesday drug test? I don't really know. I thought there would be difference in concentration. > Does it matter if it is a "heavy" drug (say, mushrooms?)? Mushrooms are not a hard drug. Fentanyl/heroine and crack are. > Does it matter that someone did a couple of lines of coke saturday rather than be drunk and high from Friday to Sunday? IMHO the…

There is no such thing as a "hard" or "heavy" drug. These terms are not in pharmacological literature and are not defined by any property of the chemical or their pharmacological action.

Nevertheless it is rather easy to tell them apart. Hard drugs quickly cause heavy addiction in almost everybody who tries them, destroy their health and can even kill them easily. Psilocybin does not, it can actually be used to improve neural health and cure addictions (just search it here on HN, there are many papers to reference).

There are things which are hard to define precisely nevertheless easy to distinguish intuitively.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#105

Post by qwerty456127 » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 12:19 PM UTC

BoxOfRain wrote: post #81

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug tests should be banned for most folks. Additionally: What is a trace amount after a weekend? Can you tell if someone smoked pot on Sunday rather than Monday on a Wednesday drug test? Does it matter if it is a "heavy" drug (say, mushrooms?)? Does it matter that someone did a couple of lines of coke saturday rather than be drunk and high from Friday to Sunday?

I'd outright refuse to work at a place that imposed them on principle, body integrity is one of my strongest-held values. There's enough creepy corporate manipulation of our private lives as it is, the only piss they'll get from me is a swift "piss off" and I'll work somewhere that respects personal boundaries.

Me too, but we are privileged to choose a job according to our preferences. Meanwhile, there are many people for whom it is way harder to find a better job in their life circumstances / places they live. Losing it can easily ruin their lives.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#106

Post by qwerty456127 » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 12:25 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #68

lenkite wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go back to which era ? Just asking out of curiosity. AFAIK, gun violence has always been endemic to the USA - and most especially in places where guns are banned. I suspect this will only change with a national ban on Guns. Yet gun traffickers across the border would love that. The American continents have more guns than anywhere else in the world.

Gun traffickers would not love it: It is easy to get guns in, say, Indiana, and then traffic them other places. This is, in general, what has been happening. Chicago has more gun issues due to Indiana's lax laws (and it is right next to Indiana). In a bigger picture, Canada has more trouble with gun smuggling due to the ease of getting weapons in the US. And as others have said, the US tends to supply other places in…

> get much, much more expensive on the black market

Gun traffickers (the gang bosses scpecifically) would love this. Smugglers love prohibition.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#107

Post by throwaway0a5e » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 12:30 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #68

lenkite wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go back to which era ? Just asking out of curiosity. AFAIK, gun violence has always been endemic to the USA - and most especially in places where guns are banned. I suspect this will only change with a national ban on Guns. Yet gun traffickers across the border would love that. The American continents have more guns than anywhere else in the world.

Gun traffickers would not love it: It is easy to get guns in, say, Indiana, and then traffic them other places. This is, in general, what has been happening. Chicago has more gun issues due to Indiana's lax laws (and it is right next to Indiana). In a bigger picture, Canada has more trouble with gun smuggling due to the ease of getting weapons in the US. And as others have said, the US tends to supply other places in…

The overwhelming majority of illegally owned guns you'll find somewhere like Chicago, NYC or Boston are stolen.

The reason they come from places like Indiana, Pennsylvania or New Hampshire is basic economics. There is no market there since guns are so readily available legally. Even if you're a prohibited person a straw purchase is much more accessible and less of a liability to all involved than a stolen gun so the market for stolen guns moves to wherever straw purchases are much less practical. Because guns are more available legally you get a much broader cross section of society owning them which means more get stolen. Supply and demand works is magic and they all wind up over the border where they can be sold.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#108

Post by leereeves » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 12:32 PM UTC

yetihehe wrote: post #92

Leparamour wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He says where violence comes from. They do not in fact. They insinuate that police is arresting blacks as a modern sequel to slavery. That's a complete reversal of cause and effect. Blacks are disproportionally targeted because they're committing criminal acts at disproportionally higher levels compared to every other "marginalized" minority. There's a reason the 13/50 trope exists for blacks and not for Asians.

> Blacks are disproportionally targeted because they're committing criminal acts at disproportionally higher levels compared to every other "marginalized" minority. I agree, but just because blacks commit more crimes, it is NOT valid to harass innocent blacks. When you harass innocent blacks, you have more resentment from general populace. It is easy to see all blacks as criminals when all you see every day are black…

But when policing is reduced in these communities, the crime rate skyrockets. There's a much deeper problem that isn't being addressed by "defund the police".

Indeed, that's why disproportionate targeting still exists. We've forgotten that the police policy that BLM objects to now was supported not long ago by Democrats and black community leaders, because crime was a major problem, but now we're starting to remember.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#109

Post by BoxOfRain » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 12:46 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #105

BoxOfRain wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd outright refuse to work at a place that imposed them on principle, body integrity is one of my strongest-held values. There's enough creepy corporate manipulation of our private lives as it is, the only piss they'll get from me is a swift "piss off" and I'll work somewhere that respects personal boundaries.

Me too, but we are privileged to choose a job according to our preferences. Meanwhile, there are many people for whom it is way harder to find a better job in their life circumstances / places they live. Losing it can easily ruin their lives.

Yeah, I'm definitely aware it's a luxury to be able to turn down jobs and that this sector-specific good job market isn't going to last forever either.

I really think we should ban drug testing in the vast majority of cases to protect people who are less fortunate from the ridiculous puritan corporate culture many places adopt. I can see a case for it in roles where heavy machinery or other potentially deadly outcomes are a possibility but for the overwhelming majority of jobs it's just controlling behaviour for the sake of being controlling in my opinion.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#110

Post by atq2119 » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

skinkestek wrote: post #91

formerly_proven wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Other countries have high gun ownership and low crime and low police violence. I.e. "la comparaison suisse" It doesn't really hold up. Switzerland has a very low crime rate, but also has one of the highest gun violence rates in Europe (most are suicides).

Around here lots of guns were removed from the equation 10 - 20 years ago and I haven't heard about a corresponding decrease in suicides. As far as I can see guns doesn't trigger suicides.

The comment you reply to does not claim that there's a causation between fun ownership and suicide.

It merely notes that the gun violence in Switzerland is largely suicide, which is probably simply because the share of gun suicide among suicide overall is higher in Switzerland than elsewhere.