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HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

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Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#101
post #92
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally removing defender as TI is the only option if you dont want it turning itself back on arbitrarily. I went through this hell yesterday for about 3 hours.

>Totally removing defender as TI is the only option if you dont want it turning itself back on arbitrarily I disabled it via group policy 2 years ago and just checked, still disabled.

It was working like that before, but on latest updates it automatically turns on every restart (or so).

I don't really need to remove it, only disable it because it visibly slows down machine x2-x10 depending on what you do.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#102
post #58
post #23

I am legitimately not sure if this is a bug or a feature. I'll take all the side-channels I can get though. These "exploits" are really useful for regaining control over my own PC. Just yesterday I learned how to Run-As TrustedInstaller, and that let me remove a lot of unwanted bullshit on my windows 10 install.

>I'll take all the side-channels I can get though. These "exploits" are really useful for regaining control over my own PC. Not really? What does this exploit let you do that you couldn't already do with a local administrator account? Or are you making the general argument that "EoP exploits are features because they allow you to jailbreak your device"? >Just yesterday I learned how to Run-As TrustedInstaller, and th…

> What does this exploit let you do that you couldn't already do with a local administrator account

There are some things that users in Administrators group still can't do. Hence the need for TrustedInstaller perms.

For example, try running this script:

https://github.com/W4RH4WK/Debloat-Windows-10/blob/master/sc...

You will get access denied since few months back:

https://github.com/W4RH4WK/Debloat-Windows-10/issues/273

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#103
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>" for regaining control over my own PC. Just yesterday I learned how to Run-As TrustedInstaller, and that let me remove a lot of unwanted bullshit on my windows 10 install." I understand Linux, Mac, FreeBSD, Magic-Pony-OS is not everyone's cup of tea or they might not be in a position to choose their OS (Work etc) But DAMN that quote above is really showing me how bad it is out there ! Sure it can/does happen on oth…

If there was never an "old way" of doing things that didn't involve the new TrustedInstaller system, then would we even be thinking twice about these new restrictions? Or would we just see the restrictions as part of the design of the APIs? Just because they took a part of the system that used to be externally facing and made it internally facing, I don't think that is the same as making "your PC not your PC anymore"…

> If they were blocking administrators from executing arbitrary code or having arbitrary access to I/Os, that would be a different story.

I think this is the exact story being discussed here.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#104
post #23

I am legitimately not sure if this is a bug or a feature. I'll take all the side-channels I can get though. These "exploits" are really useful for regaining control over my own PC. Just yesterday I learned how to Run-As TrustedInstaller, and that let me remove a lot of unwanted bullshit on my windows 10 install.

>" for regaining control over my own PC. Just yesterday I learned how to Run-As TrustedInstaller, and that let me remove a lot of unwanted bullshit on my windows 10 install." I understand Linux, Mac, FreeBSD, Magic-Pony-OS is not everyone's cup of tea or they might not be in a position to choose their OS (Work etc) But DAMN that quote above is really showing me how bad it is out there ! Sure it can/does happen on oth…

> But DAMN that quote above is really showing me how bad it is out there !

Actually Windows is quite awesome nowdays. I was using mentioned OSes for years during periods of Windows downs, and since Satya Nadella took the leadership I was very happy with Windows (I primarily spend my time in PowerShell, browser, vscode and using dev tools but have different dedicated installations for games, media etc.)

Now with this can't-turn-off-helicopter attitude I am really considering switching to some Linux variant again. Mac is totally out of question due to similar concerns.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#105
post #24

It amazes me that Microsoft haven't replaced the Registry with a simple directory structure, not that it would help for this particular bug, but it would surely be an improvement. I maintain a library for accessing the registry from Linux ( https://github.com/libguestfs/hivex ) and after writing it I also wrote this screed about how it sucks in just about every way possible: https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/why-…

No thanks: the registry is a truly huge simple key/value store, which is something files-in-dirs are terrible for because almost every single one of them would take up a full block on disk instead of the fraction of a block they actually need. A better solution would be a simple database (like sqlite3) but then the immediate counter-argument is "okay, so we're done: it's already a simple database", because the regist…

[deleted]

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#106
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>" for regaining control over my own PC. Just yesterday I learned how to Run-As TrustedInstaller, and that let me remove a lot of unwanted bullshit on my windows 10 install." I understand Linux, Mac, FreeBSD, Magic-Pony-OS is not everyone's cup of tea or they might not be in a position to choose their OS (Work etc) But DAMN that quote above is really showing me how bad it is out there ! Sure it can/does happen on oth…

> I'm betting Windows is the leader in "my-pc-is-not-my-pc-anymore" :/ There are PCs out there running ChromeOS and Android. Not to mention smartphones and game consoles. Windows is not good in this regard, but it's by far not the worst (though the UX for administrative actions is really not great, IMO).

(Nearly?) All ChromeOS devices use CoreBoot. You really can't get much more open than that.

Android is open source and if you don't buy a locked down device from a carrier, the bootloader is unlockable and the system easily rootable.

Your two examples of something more 'not my pc anymore' than Windows aren't exactly good ones.

Now, if you were to mention MacOS and iOS... then you definitely would have had a point.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#107
post #86
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yeah, it was the only way to remove defender Why not just disable it using group policy?

Totally removing defender as TI is the only option if you dont want it turning itself back on arbitrarily. I went through this hell yesterday for about 3 hours.

Hell is the right word for it.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#108
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm betting Windows is the leader in "my-pc-is-not-my-pc-anymore" :/ There are PCs out there running ChromeOS and Android. Not to mention smartphones and game consoles. Windows is not good in this regard, but it's by far not the worst (though the UX for administrative actions is really not great, IMO).

(Nearly?) All ChromeOS devices use CoreBoot. You really can't get much more open than that. Android is open source and if you don't buy a locked down device from a carrier, the bootloader is unlockable and the system easily rootable. Your two examples of something more 'not my pc anymore' than Windows aren't exactly good ones. Now, if you were to mention MacOS and iOS... then you definitely would have had a point.

> (Nearly?) All ChromeOS devices use CoreBoot. You really can't get much more open than that.

Last time I looked, it was really hard to install anything other than ChromeOS on Chromebook hardware. You can install a chrooted Linux on them, yes, but on the device itself you can't even execute unsigned binaries.

Impossible? No. Harder than executing an installer with elevated rights? Yes. Plus, they also come with pre-installed software like Google Docs.

> Android is open source and if you don't buy a locked down device from a carrier,

That's quite a big if. Android itself is open source, yes, but >90% of the ecosystem rely on Google Play services, which are anything but. And, when talking about pre-installed apps that the user can't remove without a lot of effort, Android basically invented that.

> the bootloader is unlockable and the system easily rootable.

If you wipe your device and void your warranty. And then install a third-party binary to actually use those rights, while similarly loosing the ability to use quite a few apps (like banking). That is, if the manufacturer makes it that easy (Xiaomi, for example, needs you to sign up and wait for that - it's possible, but anything but frictionless).

> Now, if you were to mention MacOS and iOS... then you definitely would have had a point

I can't talk about MacOS, to be honest. Though, as far as I know, getting a root shell is not hard and running own software is not a problem.

We agree on iOS, but the grandparent talked about PCs - iOS really does not fall into that category (that's why I explicitly mentioned smartphones).

> Your two examples of something more 'not my pc anymore' than Windows aren't exactly good ones.

Windows is not a good example of that. Don't get me wrong, I don't like windows. But it's by far not the worst example of a locked-down, vendor-owned system and it would be even less bad if the administration UX would be simpler.

Re: HiveNightmare a.k.a. SeriousSAM – anybody can read the registry in Windows 10

#110
post #23

I am legitimately not sure if this is a bug or a feature. I'll take all the side-channels I can get though. These "exploits" are really useful for regaining control over my own PC. Just yesterday I learned how to Run-As TrustedInstaller, and that let me remove a lot of unwanted bullshit on my windows 10 install.

Yeah, it was the only way to remove defender. Then I used debloaters and shutup10 to remove all other "features". Windows didn't like it and returned ALL of them on update. Now I disabled update, and are totally motivated to go back to linux. Luckily all the tools I use on Windows are x-platform and with PowerShell, vscode, sql server etc. on linux and games working nothing holds me any more. I will probably miss Aut…

>...and are totally motivated to go back to linux.

Windows 10 was what broke me and got me to using Linux full time. Before that, I barely knew how to even just get my way through debian to resume a disconnected screen session. Now I prefer to be in Linux. Even if the software that I can run using Wine/PlayOnLinux/Proton/Lutris isn't 100%... it's sufficient to where I don't miss being on Windows at all.

I recently upgraded my main system and used the extra parts to rebuild my Win 10 standby box. I grew up on Windows. Started with Win3.0/DOS and used every iteration except WinME and Vista... and the rebuild only reminded me how much of a pain in the ass Windows is to install. 10 still has a lot of the usability bugs I've encountered from way back in the Win98 days but all the extra crap we have to deal with now (most inconsistent and overencumbered UI ever) just makes it even more of a chore to use than it ever has been.

For what it's worth, Foobar2K runs great in Wine.

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